iran

[ekg]

well I guess they know what to do with protestors..

Iranian lawmakers condemn protests; call for execution of leaders

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian lawmakers denounced Monday's protests in Tehran and called for the execution of two opposition leaders for inciting the demonstrations, Iran's state-run Press TV reported Tuesday.

Members of the Iranian parliament issued fiery chants against opposition leaders and former presidential candidates Mehdi Karrubi and Mir Hossein Moussavi.

Press TV aired video Tuesday of lawmakers chanting "Moussavi, Karrubi ... execute them."

Lawmakers also named former President Mohammad Khatami in some of the death chants.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/15/iran.protests/index.html?hpt=T1


This very much interests me.. in 09 Iran had a pretty big uprising that just never got anywhere.. I would think that if they had the same, at this moment and time, they could probably oust the ruling class.. It will be interesting to watch..

it will also be interesting to watch Hannity and Beck defend Ahmadinejad and the clerics the way they did Mubarak. Wait no, they want Iran to have democracy and oust Ahmadinejad.. so watching them bend and twist while they explain why democracy in iran is needed but democracy everywhere else is a bad idea..

[Howey]

well I guess they know what to do with protestors..

Iranian lawmakers condemn protests; call for execution of leaders

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian lawmakers denounced Monday's protests in Tehran and called for the execution of two opposition leaders for inciting the demonstrations, Iran's state-run Press TV reported Tuesday.

Members of the Iranian parliament issued fiery chants against opposition leaders and former presidential candidates Mehdi Karrubi and Mir Hossein Moussavi.

Press TV aired video Tuesday of lawmakers chanting "Moussavi, Karrubi ... execute them."

Lawmakers also named former President Mohammad Khatami in some of the death chants.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/15/iran.protests/index.html?hpt=T1


This very much interests me.. in 09 Iran had a pretty big uprising that just never got anywhere.. I would think that if they had the same, at this moment and time, they could probably oust the ruling class.. It will be interesting to watch..

it will also be interesting to watch Hannity and Beck defend Ahmadinejad and the clerics the way they did Mubarak. Wait no, they want Iran to have democracy and oust Ahmadinejad.. so watching them bend and twist while they explain why democracy in iran is needed but democracy everywhere else is a bad idea..

Damn you. 

If you remember I blogged about the Iran uprisings back then:

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/civil-war-in-iran/

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/iran-update-6/

and especially this one. One of my statements is telling:

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/iran-update-4/

It’s obvious the United States is taking the right stance on this issue and has the support of expatriate Iranian groups, the UN, and other countries. What is missing is the support of neocon members of the Republican Party who feel President Obama should interfere with a political matter in Iran.

Sorry. This is the last thing to do. What happened the last time the US became politically involved in Iran? We don’t need that again.

That said, the US should remain cognizant of the human rights of the Iranian people and keep a keen eye on the blatant disregard of the fraudulent government over there for said human rights.

I fear it's going to be even harder this time. The Iranian government has blocked (to the best of their ability) news from Egypt and Tunisia and have had three or more weeks to prepare for the inevitable.

It'll happen. Maybe not now...

[lil mike]

Damn you. 

If you remember I blogged about the Iran uprisings back then:

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/civil-war-in-iran/

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/21/iran-update-6/

and especially this one. One of my statements is telling:

http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/iran-update-4/

I fear it's going to be even harder this time. The Iranian government has blocked (to the best of their ability) news from Egypt and Tunisia and have had three or more weeks to prepare for the inevitable.

It'll happen. Maybe not now...

Actually I was going to write up a reply, but I went back and read my replies to your posts and decided I didn't have to.  I still agree with what I wrote then:

I’ve noticed that one of the big differences between liberals and conservatives (or dems and pubs if you prefer) is that liberals seem to lack historical prespective. In the case of Tiananmen Square, though, that is fairly recent history. This happened in your lifetime, since you’ve been an adult, so either you were not paying attention at the time or you are just wacked. China is not a democracy now, and it wasn’t then, and did not in any way become more democratic as a result of Tiananmen Square. China is more open and free economically, and that is important, but that’s only half the story and that’s what lead to the thirst for democracy in the first place. It’s still a communist dictatorship and is no more represenative now then it was pre Tiananmen.

I’m not arguing that we should ship weapons or supplies to the rioters in Iran, but I do think it’s not asking too much for the President, who thinks he is the moral restorer of America’s place in the world, to take a moral position in support of our values.



and...

Astounding.

“But didn’t the repression at Tiananmen Square actually produce change in China?”

Uh no. The Chinese got a crackdown and more repression. Tiananamen Square happened because the government and economy were changing, and people thought that a representative government was the next natural step. Those protestors were jailed or killed and that pretty much ended the open democracy movement in China. If you’re brutal enough, repression works. It did in China.

What happens in Iran depends on how hard ball the Iranian mullahs want to play.



Basically the situation is very similar, except I hope the White House is more supportive of the democracy movement in Iran this time than they were last time.  Although I supported the move to openness in Egypt, I could at least understand the counter argument;  Mubarak kept the peace for 30 years with Israel and was a good ally of the US.  He was a "team player" so we potentially have something to lose if Egypt's foreign policy moves to reflect the preferences of it's people.  However with Iran, we have nothing to lose.  I doubt any government could be worse toward us than the one that is in power now.  There is no advantage toward supporting the status quo and a huge potential upside if Iran becomes more open.

The difference is, ultimately, Mubarak was not willing to do what it takes to put down that kind of rebellion, machine gunning the crowd and toss the survivors in prison.  Other states have been willing to do what it takes to stay in power.  China for one, and less commonly known, Syria, which slaughtered an entire city of 100,000 people that was in rebellion.  When you are willing to kill 100,000 of your own people to stay in power, you're serious.

The question is, how serious are the Iranians?

[Howey]

I’ve noticed that one of the big differences between liberals and conservatives (or dems and pubs if you prefer) is that liberals seem to lack historical prespective. In the case of Tiananmen Square, though, that is fairly recent history.

Whereas conservatives lack the ability to realize that not all people want to live in a democracy and are comfortable with mere economic freedom? Not every nation wants the US to invade it and depose their leader.

It's been 21 years since Tiananmen Square. A lot's happened since then, particularly in access to the outside world. Perhaps the size of the nation is it's biggest stumbling block to further growth, which is admittedly slow, but still occurring:

http://www.google.com/search?q=tianamen+square&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#sclient=psy&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&source=hp&q=cultural+change+in+china+since+tianamen+square&fp=cb921b9e247079c3

Direct elections are encouraged at the grass-root level, which has now become an important feature of village politics in China. At some places, non-CCP members have trounced the party members in these local elections. Similarly, protests by farmers and workers against local authorities have become common in today’s China. In most of time, such protests erupt due to mismanagement, corruption or atrocities by local officials. Today, thousands of organizations are functional throughout China working in different fields ranging from environmental issues to care of old age persons.

I’m not arguing that we should ship weapons or supplies to the rioters in Iran, but I do think it’s not asking too much for the President, who thinks he is the moral restorer of America’s place in the world, to take a moral position in support of our values.

Basically the situation is very similar, except I hope the White House is more supportive of the democracy movement in Iran this time than they were last time.  Although I supported the move to openness in Egypt, I could at least understand the counter argument;  Mubarak kept the peace for 30 years with Israel and was a good ally of the US.  He was a "team player" so we potentially have something to lose if Egypt's foreign policy moves to reflect the preferences of it's people.  However with Iran, we have nothing to lose.  I doubt any government could be worse toward us than the one that is in power now.  There is no advantage toward supporting the status quo and a huge potential upside if Iran becomes more open.

The difference is, ultimately, Mubarak was not willing to do what it takes to put down that kind of rebellion, machine gunning the crowd and toss the survivors in prison.  Other states have been willing to do what it takes to stay in power.  China for one, and less commonly known, Syria, which slaughtered an entire city of 100,000 people that was in rebellion.  When you are willing to kill 100,000 of your own people to stay in power, you're serious.

The question is, how serious are the Iranians?

I believe Obama's serious about Iran. Whether the change will occur now, or later, is up to the people of Iran.

[44nutman]

There are some similarities between Iran and Egypt. Iran before the Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla took over, they were somewhat Westernized in their religious attitudes. The chicks wore dresses and what not and Egypt had the same outlook and did not go all Sharia. Iran and Egypt have a better educated population than most in the Middle East. I think you will see the same in Iran in the distant future but success depends on if the army starts mowing down protestors or not.