Welcome to Bizarro Amerika!

And so it begins. 

(Reuters) - IBM plans to move U.S. retirees off its company-sponsored health plan and shift them into new public insurance exchanges as a way of lowering costs.

IBM had selected Extend Health, which is owned by Towers Watson & Co, to provide retirees with new health options for medical, prescription drug, dental and vision coverage, the company said in a statement on Friday.

The plan, it said, offered IBM retirees more choice and better value than the company could provide through existing group plans.

IBM also said it was hosting meetings with groups of retirees across the country to inform them about the move to the country's largest private Medicare Exchange.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/07/us-ibm-healthcare-idUSBRE98602Z20130907

which is why we needed the public option or single payer.

It will come.


You prefer people not having any healthcare?

I don't know...sounds like they're embracing the intent of Obamacare by switching them into low cost "public insurance plans".

Oh and welcome Suzie!!!!

Agree. The OP makes sense.

then what's the problem with giving them the better plan?

No one is denied healthcare in this country.  Fixes need to be made to the system, not the entire system destroyed.

That's what Obamacare's trying to do...lower costs, decrease fraud, and increase participation by all...even the healthy.

I agree with some aspects of Obamacare, but it is essentially like bulldozing a house to fix the A/C -- my favorite analogy.

The exchanges open in less than 30 days, so we will see more after that.

Remember, I'm one of those who oppose Obamacare, but not for the same reason the right wing does. I oppose it because a single payor system is better. Something like the VA system I enjoy, or Medicare for All.

There's other threads on here, Suzie, that explain the hyperbole over claims, but like you said we'll learn the truth soon.

This is the first step towards single payer, as Evidence said. 

It's been a long time coming.

Millions and millions of people continually having to go into hospitals for non-critical, but necessary care they could get from a private practice M.D. is another factor that adds to high priced private insurance.

Time will tell. I expect tweaks and modifications along the way with ACA, but I suspect that ultimately it will help more than it will cause problems.

Btw Susie...there are ppl denied health care in this country, at least up until Obamacare.

Those with preexisting conditions.

I'm one of those.  If it wasn't for medicaid/medicare...I quite literally would probably already be dead.

To be honest Chuck you prove Susie's point only by being eligible for alternative treatment because you're poor. I'm talking about those denied by insurance carriers.

No, you misunderstand.  The level of care I receive, or am privy to, should be available to everyone, not just the poor/disabled/elderly.

It's crazy to think that people, who are able, who are working their asses off, doing the right thing (as it were), paying bills/taxes/taking care of their children...cannot afford health care...except going to the E.R....after they've let something that was nominal in the beginning escalate into something that now has to be really and seriously addressed. All because they couldn't afford to see an MD originally, where some pills or in office treatment would have sufficed and kept them out of the hospital, where the massive fees are passed along to those with private insurance, because someone who's doing the right thing, can't afford insurance or basic medical care and wellness.

It's obscene.

Right, and that needs fixing, it could be addressed without the entirety of Obamacare.  That's what I mean by bulldozing a house to fix the roof.

There are those who could afford a doctor's office visit, but simply prefer to cry poor mouth because it would interfere with buying their 'cool shit'.

Funny how you can see people crying poor mouth, can't buy insurance, can't afford a doctor's office visit, but they have money to buy new cars and go to concerts, have six cell phones in their family, etc.  It's all about priorities people.

I don't doubt that irresponsibility are true in some cases, but I seriously doubt they're the majority.

Most of those people who are "crying poor mouth, can't buy insurance, can't afford a doctor's office visit, but they have money to buy new cars and go to concerts, have six cell phones in their family, etc" are those now required to buy insurance with the mandate.

So you think the majority of people are responsible?  I don't.  I think it's the opposite, that only a few are truly in that position.  This has been going on for years, it didn't just happen.

I think I saw it here, but didn't a new study show Foodstamps are at an all time low for abuse/misuse and have been trending that way for awhile?  I believe even the pre-numbers weren't that high.

yes they are..

 sure the ER can treat you for a broken foot, but it can't and won't give you the PT you may need after wards.. for that, you're on your own..


it can treat your sore throat, but can't treat you for throat cancer..for that you need insurance or cash..

last I heard you couldn't get mammograms at the ER either..

how about lab work... BP meds.. wisdom tooth extraction... or any number of other things.. that you will be denied unless you have 1. insurance or 2. cash up front..  If you live in other countries you aren't denied these things.. but here? oh yes you are.

not too mention getting denied treatment because your insurance companies has a fiduciary responsibility to make a profit and can only do so by denying  your medical claims..

I said what I said about Foodstamps, because there seems to be this overview that it, like insurance, are both items being extended in an extraordinary, account free fashion to a vastly inordinate amount of people who deserve neither.

Health insurance (imo) should have never been a profit driven business model. We reach a state, where we are now, as EKG said, where fiduciary responsibility (and it is a responsibility, it's the law) is pitted against wellness.  Profit or treatment? You start cutting into the former?...buh-bye.

but it wasn't.. for decades it wasn't and it finally built up to the critical mass we have today.

Obamacare isn't the 'end all be all' but it is the start that was needed to fix everything that is wrong with the healthcare system in this country.

The absolute insane part of all this argument over Obamacare is the idea that every country in the world with some kind of gov't health or mix if Gov't/Private system...can do it but we can't.... that somehow, we, being the supposed 'greatest country in the world', the 'shining city on the hill'.. whose 'beacon guides everyone'... we can't figure out how to do what these other countries have figured out how to do and have been doing for years.... it's obscene. ... no, it's not obscene its utter bullshit.  The truth is the only reason there is an argument here is because the insurance lobby is afraid of losing it's cash cow.. so they've made the relative non-argument 'do people deserve better' into THE number one polarizing issue in this country.. This was the issue that ripped the country apart and created the Tea Party and made extremism 'popular'.. Obama being elected stunned them, him passing the ACA made them lose their shit... and the healthcare machine went nuts with it's insane hyperbole.. and that insanity has done more damage than the ACA will ever do..


why? because a few people know that when the entire country realizes that there really isn't a need for a profit-drive insurance industry to control healthcare.. then they're going to be fucked out of their billions and billions of dollars and their multi million dollar bonuses..

this has nothing to with 'libertarian v socialism'.. that's a myth that's been perpetrated by billion-dollars companies... it's about the bank accounts of a cpl of powerful companies and the CEO's who run them.. they just have a better PR team and they've made everyone believe it's all about 'freedom' and the 'loss of it'.. Because if it gets out that it's really about having to pay $500 for an ER visit for a kid with strep throat, they know they're fucked..

I must be missing something.  If they're retirees, wouldn't their main plan be Medicare?

They may be required to treat you but they will bill you for the treatment, as I learned from a family member.  And, they charge you more than they charge the insurance company.  You can then negotiate a payment plan, which is still more than the insurance company would pay, or you just don't pay at all, you get dunned by collection agencies and your credit rating goes to hell.

It's probably to cover Part B expenses - and the 20% Medicare doesn't pay.

Not necessarily.  Some people retire before 65.

As a job creator and small business owner, I get fucking smoked on health care. I spent almost 10 k last year with health care and one surgery for my daughter that the insurance did not cover all of it.
I pay 600 a month for my family. I go to the Dr once a year to get finger banged in the ass, and he runs some test. He tells me to lose some weight and drink less. I tell him to mind his fucking business.
The babies momma goes twice a year. She gets finger banged, tits groped and some tests as well.

Health care is a business and our system is fucked. Obamacare is a poor replacement though. It is something that basically has as much effect as me pissing in the ocean.

Commentary probably not wanted, but I'll say it anyway. (sorry in advance if this thread derails).

How far we've fallen. Not only do we promote profiting off of someones health, but we defend that right to profit from it by sources outside the actual medical profession, often at the individuals expense.

We expect construction workers and ditch diggers (and a host of other people/job types that keep society functioning) to build, dig, ect., then we berate them for not being CEO's or self made wealthy individuals able to afford their own health care. We want them to take care of our needs, of societies needs/wants, then turn around and ignore or shame them when their bodies break down and need medical treatment. Sometimes directly related to the job their doing, sometimes just because human beings get sick....which is...inevitable.

The insurance lobby doesn't want to have that conversation. They don't want to talk to the people who builds their pools/their homes, picks the veggies or tends the animals they eat, flip that burger they get at a drive-thru once in awhile, puts insulation in their home, empties that backed up septic tank, bags their groceries, stocks those shelves, makes that broom their maid uses (or the maid), makes the lipstick they put on, or the mint candy they pop in their mouth, or the tie/shoes/clothes they wear, that candle they light, the lamp they flick on, or the light bulb in it.........just make my shit, do what I need until your expiration date as a human being is up, and then go die already knowing you should have done something else besides making my shit or doing what I need and you might have been better off...you stupid loser...HA!

It's so very contemptible and reprehensible.

uselesslegs  said :

.......The insurance lobby doesn't want to have that conversation. They don't want to talk to the people who builds their pools/their homes, picks the veggies or tends the animals they eat, flip that burger they get at a drive-thru once in awhile, puts insulation in their home, empties that backed up septic tank, bags their groceries, stocks those shelves, makes that broom their maid uses (or the maid), makes the lipstick they put on, or the mint candy they pop in their mouth, or the tie/shoes/clothes they wear, that candle they light, the lamp they flick on, or the light bulb in it.........just make my shit, do what I need until your expiration date as a human being is up, and then go die already knowing you should have done something else besides making my shit or doing what I need and you might have been better off...you stupid loser...HA!......


masterfully put..

back to the op - I heard on NPR that IBM isn't moving retirees to the ACA exchanges, but to Medicare-specific exchanges that have existed for several years. This move has nothing to do with the ACA.

http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2013/09/10/health-exchange-confusion-were-getting-the-ibm-story-wrong/ (http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2013/09/10/health-exchange-confusion-were-getting-the-ibm-story-wrong/)


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/medicare/320839-ibm-to-shift-retirees-to-healthcare-exchange-due-to-rising-costs- (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/medicare/320839-ibm-to-shift-retirees-to-healthcare-exchange-due-to-rising-costs-)

No surprise the WSJ would put their special spin on the facts!