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Politikal => Political News and Election Coverage => Topic started by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 08:23:33 am



Title: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 08:23:33 am
Expect it soon here in Floriduh (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/04/23/2181158/effort-to-privatize-florida-prisons.html). Our blacks and hispanics will be a gold mine for Scott!


My track record at being 100% correct on all issues and clairvoyant in predicting them far in advance is incredible! WINNING! (http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/05/rick-scott-private-prisons/)


Quote
Even before he was in office, Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) proposed privatizing much of Florida’s prison system, and state House and Senate negotiators agreed to do just that Monday as legislators hammer out a budget. The agreement will move thousands of inmates to prisons run by for-profit companies in an 18-county region in Southern Florida.
 
As the Maimi Herald reported last month, Scott’s plan “could open a lucrative door to politically connected vendors who stand to profit.” GEO Group appears to be the company with the most to gain. The nation’s second largest private corrections company, GEO — based in Boca Raton, FL — already manages two of the state’s seven private prisons and four of its seven mental-health facilities.
 
A “prime financier[] of the Republican Party,” GEO Group gave more than $400,000 to GOP in the 2010 election cycle alone and gave the maximum $25,000 to Scott’s inaugural fund.
 
The company has also deployed a small army of lobbyists in Tallahassee, including Florida “uber-lobbyist” Brian Ballard. Ballard and Scott have an unusually close relationship. Scott appointed Ballard to the finance committee for his inaugural fund and Ballard helped raise $3 million for the festivities. The month after Scott was sworn in, Ballard hosted a fundraiser Superbowl party at his Tallahassee home — Scott was the guest of honor.
 
Ballard is also a lobbyist for the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) — the nation’s largest corrections company with close ties to GOP statehouses across the country — which also stands to gain from the privatization scheme. The company has spent $373,000 in political contributions in Florida since 2003, over 60 percent of which have gone to Republicans.

Meanwhile, a third company, The Boca Raton company, is a “a reliable contributor to the Republican party” and gave Scott’s inaugural fund the maximum $25,000. It also employs a stable of 16 lobbyists in Tallahassee.
 
It’s really just a gift to the private-prison industry,” said David Murrell of the Police Benevolent Association, the union which represents correctional officers. “It’s very political. The private corporations have been very helpful to the governor and his people.” Ironically, Scott “campaigned against the influence of special interests,” the St. Petersburg Times’ Marc Caputo notes. “But that was sooooo 2010.”

Ahhh...the sweet smell of corruption!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 06, 2011, 03:15:48 pm
Quote
Even before he was in office, Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) proposed privatizing much of Florida’s prison system, and state House and Senate negotiators agreed to do just that Monday as legislators hammer out a budget. The agreement will move thousands of inmates to prisons run by for-profit companies in an 18-county region in Southern Florida.

this scares me more than many other things..

we're fucked..

the police state is here.. expect our judges to be next in line for the big money donors to start buying off.. before long you'll have teeny-tiny local judges getting millions for their campaign donations.. whereas before, they got just a few thousand.. all to buy justice, in a world where now prisons need to turn a profit.. their profit is literally based on people..that's the only thing that beast can eat..what are they gonna do to feed that need?  They'll have to buy judges..



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 05:05:16 pm
this scares me more than many other things..

we're fucked..

the police state is here.. expect our judges to be next in line for the big money donors to start buying off.. before long you'll have teeny-tiny local judges getting millions for their campaign donations.. whereas before, they got just a few thousand.. all to buy justice, in a world where now prisons need to turn a profit.. their profit is literally based on people..that's the only thing that beast can eat..what are they gonna do to feed that need?  They'll have to buy judges..



Once the sham known as the legislatiduh session is over, I'll have more on the restructuring of Florida's court system tomorrow.

Be afraid...be very afraid...


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 06, 2011, 06:21:04 pm

I'm glad to hear ekg mention the police state. I believe that the corruption following the Patriot Act has been the free pass that loads of different orgs and associations were waiting on. Today the FDA announced that they would confiscate food based on suspicion alone http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/fda-claims-power-to-seize-food-without.html

One more example that the constitution no longer has any meaning. I'm sure that there will be increased 'incentives' for police to keep them coming before the judges and they didn't need any encouragement to begin with.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 08:35:18 pm
I'm glad to hear ekg mention the police state. I believe that the corruption following the Patriot Act has been the free pass that loads of different orgs and associations were waiting on. Today the FDA announced that they would confiscate food based on suspicion alone http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/fda-claims-power-to-seize-food-without.html

One more example that the constitution no longer has any meaning. I'm sure that there will be increased 'incentives' for police to keep them coming before the judges and they didn't need any encouragement to begin with.

What the fuck does this have to do with Rick Scott?

That said, the picture with your quoted blog post is hilarious. Is the intent of this law to track down and arrest Mom and Dad's veggie garden or unscrupulous corporate farmers with their unsafe practices?

Funny as hell that your conspiracy sites are scared to death of anything being contaminated by a little Japanese radiation but don't mind other toxins in what you eat.

Ponderous...


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 12:03:28 pm
What the fuck does this have to do with Rick Scott?

That said, the picture with your quoted blog post is hilarious. Is the intent of this law to track down and arrest Mom and Dad's veggie garden or unscrupulous corporate farmers with their unsafe practices?

Funny as hell that your conspiracy sites are scared to death of anything being contaminated by a little Japanese radiation but don't mind other toxins in what you eat.

Ponderous...

ahh to be fair to fafa..

what do you think this swat team is going after?

(http://nation.foxnews.com/sites/nation.foxnews.com/files/imagecache/dv1/SWAT_AP1_0.jpg)


drugs? Terrorist? Baby-raper?

uh.. no..

Amish farmers who sell unpasteurized milk..to people who want unpasteurized milk



Quote
Milk Police: Feds Sting Amish Farmer Selling Raw (Unpasteurized) Milk


A yearlong sting operation, including aliases, a 5 a.m. surprise inspection and surreptitious purchases from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, culminated in the federal government announcing this week that it has gone to court to stop Rainbow Acres Farm from selling its contraband to willing customers in the Washington area.

The product in question: unpasteurized milk.

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/government-regulation/2011/04/29/milk-police-feds-sting-amish-farmer-selling-raw-unpasteurized-milk#ixzz1LgPF4Svx

is this really where we needed to spend a yearlong undercover sting op?




Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 07, 2011, 12:04:58 pm
What the fuck does this have to do with Rick Scott?

That said, the picture with your quoted blog post is hilarious. Is the intent of this law to track down and arrest Mom and Dad's veggie garden or unscrupulous corporate farmers with their unsafe practices?

Funny as hell that your conspiracy sites are scared to death of anything being contaminated by a little Japanese radiation but don't mind other toxins in what you eat.

Ponderous...
The point was being made that your governor is a strong proponent of private prisons. The climate of needing inmates didn't happen overnight. It goes hand in hand with what's happening to civilians all over the country from badges getting slapped on anyone with a heart beat;people are being harassed, raped and having civil liberties treated like bubble wrap.

This illegal declaration by the fraud and death administration is further evidence of a police state. The message has nothing to do with radiation since they've largely stopped talking about it and are not even measuring it anymore in the way that they were. The small handful of people calling the shots don't even care that much about money, it's about power over the individual and breaking people's will.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 12:11:20 pm
ahh to be fair to fafa..

what do you think this swat team is going after?

(http://nation.foxnews.com/sites/nation.foxnews.com/files/imagecache/dv1/SWAT_AP1_0.jpg)


drugs? Terrorist? Baby-raper?

uh.. no..

Amish farmers who sell unpasteurized milk..to people who want unpasteurized milk



is this really where we needed to spend a yearlong undercover sting op?




Are you saying we shouldn't be regulating unsafe foods?



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 12:54:23 pm
Are you saying we shouldn't be regulating unsafe foods?



I'm home now and checking into this...

After the initial shock of finding ekg using Fox Nation as a source who used the Washington Times as a source who used Alex Jones as a source it's evident this scandal is the latest manufactured whoop-de-doo of conspiracy theorists everywhere.

The picture? I guarantee that's not of a mom and pop Amish farm. Fake.

The story? Been going around since 09 when the FDA first sent this so-called Amish farmer a letter asking him to cease sending unpateuirzed milk across state lines:

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm209276.htm

This whole thing reeks of conspiracy theory bullshit, Kelly. And you fell for it.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 07, 2011, 01:37:28 pm

I can understand your aversion to what you see as conspiracy theories. It seems like you are completely ignoring the facts here. Sites don't figure into this. Either the FDA is doing these things or they aren't and they clearly are. The truth is the truth and if doesn't fit the white picket fence American Dream Lie scenario, you seem to immediately dismiss whatever it is.

FYI: I frequently do a search to find a story that hundreds of sites have and you act like you think I spend hours on whatever site and make judgments based on projected false assumptions. Like that Kissinger quote is in at least thousands of places(from a few weeks ago)and the first place you, Howey, found, you talked more than once about specifics of that site as if I definitely got the quote from wherever you found it. 

If 'remember when' is the lowest form of conversation, drawing false assumptions about people based on a few seconds of searching has to be the lowest form of interaction online. Large minds talk about ideas and encourage meaningful debate. In effect, the immediate tackling of anything you don't want to see or think about only shines a light on shallow thinking of which I believe anyone here is capable of much more.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 07, 2011, 02:37:47 pm
I'm home now and checking into this...

After the initial shock of finding ekg using Fox Nation as a source who used the Washington Times as a source who used Alex Jones as a source it's evident this scandal is the latest manufactured whoop-de-doo of conspiracy theorists everywhere.

The picture? I guarantee that's not of a mom and pop Amish farm. Fake.

The story? Been going around since 07 when the FDA first sent this so-called Amish farmer a letter asking him to cease sending unpateuirzed milk across state lines:

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm209276.htm

This whole thing reeks of conspiracy theory bullshit, Kelly. And you fell for it.

You could have at least have provided the links from all that research.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 05:18:12 pm
You could have at least have provided the links from all that research.

What? I provided a link for the FDA's letter to the guy. ekg provided the link to the "news story" from Fox Nation.

As far as the picture? Given the reputation of FOX, the Washington Times, and Alex Jones, I seriously doubt it's validity.

But is that picture a depiction of the FDA Stormtroopers busting in the glass, electrically lit, modern structure that is this farmhome owned by the Amish farmer? I don't think so.

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a4e0ab431a.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)



is this really where we needed to spend a yearlong undercover sting op?



Undercover sting operation? Do you mean where the FDA employee ordered raw milk to be shipped across state lines? Boy...I'll bet that took a lot of man hours and jumpboot-clad stormtroopers to carry out!



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 05:25:20 pm
I can understand your aversion to what you see as conspiracy theories. It seems like you are completely ignoring the facts here. Sites don't figure into this. Either the FDA is doing these things or they aren't and they clearly are. The truth is the truth and if doesn't fit the white picket fence American Dream Lie scenario, you seem to immediately dismiss whatever it is.

What am I dismissing? The facts? The facts are that the farmer broke the law by shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines. The facts are that the farmer ignored repeated cease and desist orders from the FDA. The facts are that the FDA had to take the farmer to civil court, not criminal court, to enforce the law.

The law:

Quote
[21 CFR 1240.61(a)] issued by FDA in response to a 1988 court order provides, in part, that "no person shall cause to be delivered into interstate commerce or shall sell, otherwise distribute, or hold for sale or other distribution after shipment in interstate commerce any milk or milk product in final package form for direct human consumption unless the product has been pasteurized."

I'm well aware of those FACTS. They are substantiated by court records. What is not substantiated by anything are the claims by Alex Jones, Fox Nation, and others that the FDA did anything wrong other than piss off a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists by doing their fucking job.

If you, ekg, or lilMike are unhappy with the government's regulation of unsafe food, feel free to contact your congressman and let them know.

Until then, the FDA did nothing wrong.

Case closed.

WINNING!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 07:02:37 pm
Here's the administrative warrant for this dreadful violation of....well, nothing!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/36660555/Rainbow-Acres-Farm-FDA-Search-ADMINISTRATIVE-WARRANT-FOR-INSPECTION-April-2010

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b9d792bd21.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 07:56:05 pm
The picture? I guarantee that's not of a mom and pop Amish farm. Fake.


Ahhhhhhh....yes. The picture:

(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b0f1979bdf.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

I did a little search of it. Here it is on Free Republic (hell yeah!) with the title: "Collecting Obama Donations", dated March 27, 2010.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2481222/posts

Other sites using the picture are German...so one would assume that is a picture of a German SWAT team? Most likely, since the wording on the sign appears to be German.    :P (http://www.tineye.com/search/44e742be11100e9d5d0f0826d88ea6a8401c336c/)


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 09:11:31 pm
I'm home now and checking into this...

After the initial shock of finding ekg using Fox Nation as a source who used the Washington Times as a source who used Alex Jones as a source it's evident this scandal is the latest manufactured whoop-de-doo of conspiracy theorists everywhere.

The picture? I guarantee that's not of a mom and pop Amish farm. Fake.

The story? Been going around since 09 when the FDA first sent this so-called Amish farmer a letter asking him to cease sending unpateuirzed milk across state lines:

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm209276.htm

This whole thing reeks of conspiracy theory bullshit, Kelly. And you fell for it.

I wasn't just me, I saw it on a few reputable news sources last week.. even had interviews with ppl coming from the city to the farms to buy the milk and with the FDA person complaining about the farm..

you asked "Are you saying we shouldn't be regulating unsafe foods?"

I"m saying if I want to go to a farm and buy the milk from their cows, I should be allowed to.. just like I should be able to buy their tomatoes,peanuts or strawberries....


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 09:14:59 pm


Undercover sting operation? Do you mean where the FDA employee ordered raw milk to be shipped across state lines? Boy...I'll bet that took a lot of man hours and jumpboot-clad stormtroopers to carry out!




no, this one ;)

Quote
A yearlong sting operation, including aliases, a 5 a.m. surprise inspection and surreptitious purchases from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, culminated in the federal government announcing this week that it has gone to court to stop Rainbow Acres Farm from selling its contraband to willing customers in the Washington area.

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/government-regulation/2011/04/29/milk-police-feds-sting-amish-farmer-selling-raw-unpasteurized-milk#ixzz1LieJEifr


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 09:16:16 pm
you asked "Are you saying we shouldn't be regulating unsafe foods?"

I"m saying if I want to go to a farm and buy the milk from their cows, I should be allowed to.. just like I should be able to buy their tomatoes,peanuts or strawberries....

Since I know you're probably reading my later posts, I'll be gentle.

Feel free to go to his farm and buy whatever you want.

Just don't ask him to SHIP IT ACROSS STATE LINES! ;)

no, this one ;)


Keep reading...although you should have been suspicious from the beginning.

"contraband"? Really?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 09:18:29 pm
What am I dismissing? The facts? The facts are that the farmer broke the law by shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines. The facts are that the farmer ignored repeated cease and desist orders from the FDA. The facts are that the FDA had to take the farmer to civil court, not criminal court, to enforce the law.

The law:

I'm well aware of those FACTS. They are substantiated by court records. What is not substantiated by anything are the claims by Alex Jones, Fox Nation, and others that the FDA did anything wrong other than piss off a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists by doing their fucking job.

If you, ekg, or lilMike are unhappy with the government's regulation of unsafe food, feel free to contact your congressman and let them know.

Until then, the FDA did nothing wrong.

Case closed.

WINNING!

hehe,  you just backed-up our police state claim.. :-*

because, this.. your post.. is the point we're making here.. this police state, where farmers can't sell their product and I can't knowingly buy milk from a farmer all because the gov't doesn't like it..

I'll bet if the Amish took subsidies they could get an OK to sell their stuff..


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 09:21:35 pm
Since I know you're probably reading my later posts, I'll be gentle.

Feel free to go to his farm and buy whatever you want.

Just don't ask him to SHIP IT ACROSS STATE LINES! ;)
Keep reading...although you should have been suspicious from the beginning.

"contraband"? Really?

I caught up.. and you made the point by listing all the illegalities and the reasons why the gov't went after them..  but what you missed is that that is the problem we're talking about..  there shouldn't be these kinds of laws, I should be able to, here in FL, by this naturally grown product.. it's milk, it's not weed.. but the whacko-nut crazy gov't laws don't allow me to buy milk from a cow..

how odd is that?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 09:26:29 pm
hehe,  you just backed-up our police state claim.. :-*

because, this.. your post.. is the point we're making here.. this police state, where farmers can't sell their product and I can't knowingly buy milk from a farmer all because the gov't doesn't like it..

I'll bet if the Amish took subsidies they could get an OK to sell their stuff..

The issue is not that the product is safe or unsafe, although the risks of non-pasteurized milk and the organisms (not orgasms!) it might contain are certainly suspect. I mean...why did we ever come up with pasteurizing milk to begin with if it's ok?

The issue is that the non-pasteurized milk was shipped across state lines, in violation of federal law. Whether you agree or disagree with the law is a different story, there, lilekg.  ;)

I caught up.. and you made the point by listing all the illegalities and the reasons why the gov't went after them..  but what you missed is that that is the problem we're talking about..  there shouldn't be these kinds of laws, I should be able to, here in FL, by this naturally grown product.. it's milk, it's not weed.. but the whacko-nut crazy gov't laws don't allow me to buy milk from a cow..

how odd is that?

Ok. Then as I said, call, write, protest to your Congressman/woman to do away with the FDA.

While we're at it, let's do away with the EPA too. Don't worry about those pesky smoggy skies or poisoned rivers! Let's do away with the Dept. of Education too! We'll all teach our snot-nosed kids at home in the godly ways of the world! How 'bout the FAA? Fuck them! Who needs training to fly an airplane?

Let's just do away with gubmint all together!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 09:30:57 pm

no, this one ;)


How can it be a "surprise inspection" when I just posted the order ordering it? Don't these Amish know how to read?

The order also states "normal hours of operaton". Hint: Dairy farms work days start at about 3am.

A 5am inspection isn't all that bad...


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 07, 2011, 09:32:44 pm
The issue is not that the product is safe or unsafe, although the risks of non-pasteurized milk and the organisms (not orgasms!) it might contain are certainly suspect. I mean...why did we ever come up with pasteurizing milk to begin with if it's ok?

The issue is that the non-pasteurized milk was shipped across state lines, in violation of federal law. Whether you agree or disagree with the law is a different story, there, lilekg.  ;)

Ok. Then as I said, call, write, protest to your Congressman/woman to do away with the FDA.

While we're at it, let's do away with the EPA too. Don't worry about those pesky smoggy skies or poisoned rivers! Let's do away with the Dept. of Education too! We'll all teach our snot-nosed kids at home in the godly ways of the world! How 'bout the FAA? Fuck them! Who needs training to fly an airplane?

Let's just do away with gubmint all together!


why? because I want to buy milk from a farmer?

isn't that a little extreme?

wouldn't it be safer if you just let me buy my milk from a cow if I felt like it instead of buying it from a company?

btw, france doesn't pasteurize.. and they're still here.. stinky but here... and their milk/cheese are awesome.

not too mention, the corps here put hormones in the milk, that makes girls boobs grow bigger and neither us want that ;) :-*

sometimes laws are stupid.. Scott's 'private prisons' law.. stupid.. it's an overreach.. and those overreaches are usually allowed to happen because we've already let them make buying milk from a cow illegal, so why not let them make private prisons legal.. ;D


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 07, 2011, 10:10:51 pm
Oy!

Buying the milk isn't illegal.

Selling it across state lines is.

You just can't admit you're wrong. ;D


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 07, 2011, 10:52:47 pm
What am I dismissing? The facts? The facts are that the farmer broke the law by shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines. The facts are that the farmer ignored repeated cease and desist orders from the FDA. The facts are that the FDA had to take the farmer to civil court, not criminal court, to enforce the law.

The law:

I'm well aware of those FACTS. They are substantiated by court records. What is not substantiated by anything are the claims by Alex Jones, Fox Nation, and others that the FDA did anything wrong other than piss off a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists by doing their fucking job.

If you, ekg, or lilMike are unhappy with the government's regulation of unsafe food, feel free to contact your congressman and let them know.

Until then, the FDA did nothing wrong.

Case closed.

WINNING!

Winning huh?  I've seen on the muche where that leads... ;D

No I'm not arguing... well anything.  Based on the limited information here, I would agree that the FDA did nothing wrong, and if federal law prohibits the interstate commerce of unpastuerized milk, well then it's against the law.

It just seems like a silly and minor thing.  My gut feeling is that there are a lot of things that consenting, informed adults should be allowed to do that nanny statists and busybodies enjoy making illegal.  I'm guessing the FDA may have bigger enforcement issues than Amish farmers but heh, I guess once you cross the line into thinking people need to be protected from themselves there's no end to it.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 08, 2011, 11:39:21 am

Part of my point about the fda was based on recent stories aside from this one. A couple had been practicing and promoting natural supplements and holistic care for like 20 years. Armed men from the gov came in and took all their files and products. Their operation was completely legal.
http://www.naturalnews.com/032203_Maxam_Nutraceutics_FDA_raid.html
Of course you can attack the source and ignore the facts as usual.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 08, 2011, 12:38:48 pm
Part of my point about the fda was based on recent stories aside from this one. A couple had been practicing and promoting natural supplements and holistic care for like 20 years. Armed men from the gov came in and took all their files and products. Their operation was completely legal.
http://www.naturalnews.com/032203_Maxam_Nutraceutics_FDA_raid.html
Of course you can attack the source and ignore the facts as usual.

Feel free to take that to your thread. Not here.

Winning huh?  I've seen on the muche where that leads... ;D

No I'm not arguing... well anything.  Based on the limited information here, I would agree that the FDA did nothing wrong, and if federal law prohibits the interstate commerce of unpastuerized milk, well then it's against the law.


Of course it's illegal and the FDA did nothing wrong! That's what I've been saying, in my glorious rightness, all along!

It just seems like a silly and minor thing.

Bingo...it is a silly and minor thing. But the crazies had to have something to bang a drum over. The story lost any hope of credibility the moment FOX inserted a years-old picture of Germans breaking down the door to an office building and depicted it as something else.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 08, 2011, 12:47:54 pm

Of course you can attack the source and ignore the facts as usual.

that's because sometimes the 'source' can't be relied for those 'facts'.. 

if the source of the 'fact' is in question, how can their facts be unquestionable?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 08, 2011, 02:17:37 pm
Feel free to take that to your thread. Not here.

Of course it's illegal and the FDA did nothing wrong! That's what I've been saying, in my glorious rightness, all along!

Bingo...it is a silly and minor thing. But the crazies had to have something to bang a drum over. The story lost any hope of credibility the moment FOX inserted a years-old picture of Germans breaking down the door to an office building and depicted it as something else.
So to recap any story that doesn't fit with your opinions or perceptions or logic is conspiracy, got it. As a person with a free mind and sound logical making ability I don't bring up arbitrary points that have nothing to do with news such as you do here with an unsubstantiated claim about Fox which again has nothing to do with the substance of the fda now performing regular harassment of citizens who are law abiding and of no threat to anyone.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 08, 2011, 02:39:26 pm
So to recap any story that doesn't fit with your opinions or perceptions or logic is conspiracy, got it. As a person with a free mind and sound logical making ability I don't bring up arbitrary points that have nothing to do with news such as you do here with an unsubstantiated claim about Fox which again has nothing to do with the substance of the fda now performing regular harassment of citizens who are law abiding and of no threat to anyone.

TTFN!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: clc on May 08, 2011, 08:02:51 pm
Well, you guys are certainly proving adult and intellectual conversation is possible...or maybe not.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 08, 2011, 10:13:50 pm
Well, you guys are certainly proving adult and intellectual conversation is possible...or maybe not.

I know which way I'm leaning.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 08, 2011, 10:29:50 pm
I know which way I'm leaning.

Lean? All you neee to do is look up.




Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 09, 2011, 11:23:29 am
Lean? All you neee to do is look up.




Show me.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 14, 2011, 05:00:09 pm
Show me.

The crook's rakin' in the cash!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110512/us_nm/us_usa_prisons_florida

Quote
Florida has opened the doors to one of the biggest prison privatization programs in U.S. history, as the cash-strapped state looks to cut the cost of keeping more than 100,000 people behind bars.

 The privatization plan, touted by the industry as "an important milestone" for the private prison business, was approved by the Republican-dominated Florida legislature as part of a budget deal hammered out last week.

 Private prison operators have already made big inroads in states like Texas and New Mexico. But Florida has the third largest state prison system in the United States, and no other state has sought to privatize so many lock-ups at any one time.

 The move has drawn sharp criticism from law enforcement groups and even some leading Republicans, who say it endangers public safety in a state still trying to shake off a history of prison abuse and corruption, as depicted in the popular 1967 Hollywood film "Cool Hand Luke" set in Florida starring Paul Newman.

 Others say private prisons don't have incentives to rehabilitate inmates and are focused instead on profits.

 The plan has not yet been signed into law by Republican Governor Rick Scott, who took office in January after campaigning on a pledge to fight record-high unemployment.

 But few doubt that Scott, who puts a premium on cost-cutting and close ties with the business community, will endorse the initiative even though it could lead to layoffs and sharply reduced wages and benefits for 4,500 prison guards.

 Critics condemn the privatization move as an example of the corrosive effect of corporate money in politics.

 Coupled with other austerity measures introduced under the leadership of the Tea Party-backed Scott, it could hurt Republicans in the run-up to next year's election in the pivotal battleground state.

 "For the first time in my life I'm thinking about switching parties," said Jim Baiardi, a 45-year-old prison guard and life-long Republican who heads the correctional officers chapter of the Florida Police Benevolent Association.

 The privatization plan is "not for the benefit of the state, it's for the benefit of the corporations," Baiardi said.

 Under the plan, the state is required to privatize all of the prisons in South Florida, which is home to about one-fifth of the statewide inmate population of 101,000.

 That includes at least 16 prisons along with numerous annexes, juvenile correction facilities, road camps and so-called work-release centers across an 18-county region.

 "It's unprecedented in the United States," said Florida Senator Mike Fasano, a Republican who heads the Senate budget committee with oversight of prisons.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 14, 2011, 06:31:02 pm
The crook's rakin' in the cash!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110512/us_nm/us_usa_prisons_florida


Yep.  It's safe to say you didn't understand what I was talking about.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: FooFa on May 14, 2011, 06:46:37 pm
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/zeeie/Pinky-And-The-Brain-Wallpapers.jpg)
Quote
you didn't understand what I was talking about.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 14, 2011, 07:04:51 pm
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/zeeie/Pinky-And-The-Brain-Wallpapers.jpg)

Ha!

You got the characters right!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 14, 2011, 07:14:41 pm
Yep.  It's safe to say you didn't understand what I was talking about.

I'm glad to see Scott still has your unwavering support.

Perhaps you can explain the benefits of these private prisons. Noone else can.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 14, 2011, 08:31:47 pm
I'm glad to see Scott still has your unwavering support.

Perhaps you can explain the benefits of these private prisons. Noone else can.

Context is everything. 

I'm going to make it easy for you.  I'm actually going to break down the comment that I was responding to.


Well, you guys are certainly proving adult and intellectual conversation is possible...or maybe not.

I know which way I'm leaning.

 

Lean? All you neee to do is look up.



Show me.


Now here is where you went off track.

The crook's rakin' in the cash!


Which leads us to...


Yep.  It's safe to say you didn't understand what I was talking about.



Does that help?


As far as private prisons go, do you not see why they would be cheaper?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 15, 2011, 09:59:18 am
Context is everything. 

I'm going to make it easy for you.  I'm actually going to break down the comment that I was responding to.


 
Now here is where you went off track.

Which leads us to...


Does that help?

Oh My Goodness Gracious.

You didn't have to do that, Mikie! I just mistakenly quoted something, that's all...

But, to clarify...When I said:


Lean? All you need to do is look up.


It was in reference to a News Item in the marquee referring to your persistent inability to "get along" with others without personal insults. But that is a closed subject now, isn't it?

As far as private prisons go, do you not see why they would be cheaper?

No, I don't. I see a money pit rife with personal and political graft and corruption. Please explain how private prisons would be cheaper, and better. Because, from what I've read, they're not (http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/17/news/economy/private_prisons_economic_impact.fortune/index.htm).

Quote
Early this month, three convicted murderers escaped from a prison in Kingman, a small town along Route 66 in northwest Arizona. According to reports, the inmates had broken free from the facility by using a pair of wire cutters. They'd escaped from a medium-security facility operated by Utah-based Management & Training Corp, a private corrections company.

The incident set off a political furor, not over the fact that the three violent criminals were being held in a medium-security prison, but over the security of the facility itself, and, ultimately, over Arizona's widespread use of private correctional facilities.

Arizona's attorney general, Terry Goddard, a Democrat running for governor against incumbent Republican Janice Brewer, took the opportunity to indict the state's infatuation with privatization.

"I believe a big part of our problem is that the very violent inmates, like the three that escaped, ended up getting reclassified [as a lower risk] quickly and sent to private prisons that were just not up to the job," Goddard told a local TV news station.

In recent years, the trend toward privatization, both among state governments and at the federal level has been part of an attempt to address serious budget troubles and crisis-level prison overcrowding by outsourcing more and more corrections operations to private companies.

The move has translated into big business for industry leaders like Corrections Corporation of America (CXW), The Geo Group (GEO) and Cornell Companies, Inc. (CRN) (just last week, The Geo Group and Cornell finalized a merger valued at $730 million).

That law in Arizona, btw, has been signed into law.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 15, 2011, 10:54:01 am
Oh My Goodness Gracious.

You didn't have to do that, Mikie! I just mistakenly quoted something, that's all...


OK that's fine.  It didn't seem like you realized it.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 15, 2011, 12:01:28 pm

No, I don't. I see a money pit rife with personal and political graft and corruption.


oh just a smidgeee..

Quote
Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for cash' scandal (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-23/justice/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges_1_detention-judges-number-of-juvenile-offenders?_s=PM:CRIME)

Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.

fucking kids.. the greed is so out of fucking control, they jailed kids to line their pocket.

Question, if a company's profit depends on how many prisoners they have.. how do they get more profit?  Uh I know, find a cop,DA, or judge willing to play ball so they lock more people up..

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo big shocker there.

almost as big of a shock as if a company's profit depends on keeping the majority of the money it's subscribers pay them each month,  then how do they keep that money? Uhhhhh deny their medical claims..

some things should simply not be privatized and for profit.. and prisons are definitely one of them..



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 15, 2011, 12:42:12 pm
OK that's fine.  It didn't seem like you realized it.

So you're not going to answer my question, huh?

oh just a smidgeee..

fucking kids.. the greed is so out of fucking control, they jailed kids to line their pocket.

Question, if a company's profit depends on how many prisoners they have.. how do they get more profit?  Uh I know, find a cop,DA, or judge willing to play ball so they lock more people up..

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo big shocker there.


It's interesting how this is starting out in South Florida. Seems like there's a whole hell of a lot of them Messicans down there, huh?


almost as big of a shock as if a company's profit depends on keeping the majority of the money it's subscribers pay them each month,  then how do they keep that money? Uhhhhh deny their medical claims..

some things should simply not be privatized and for profit.. and prisons are definitely one of them..



The whole "We'll save the state money by not giving the prison guards and admin staff pensions and health benefits" line is a scam (go figure).

How many of these prison guards and admin staff are going to be around when the privateers (!) take over? None. They're all going to be fired, or laid off, thus increasing our rolls of unemployed. Thankfully, Florida now has the worst unemployment system in the nation, thanks to Scott of course!

Who's going to replace them? Scott will, like the Governor of Arizona and other states have done: Hire one of their own to head the state prison system, effectively handing them control of everything. The guards and admin staff? Replaced by $8 hr untrained goons brought in from other states where they already have a foothold. Folks who don't give a damn about the prisoners, just their next paycheck.

You thought the TSA was bad?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: uselesslegs on May 15, 2011, 04:13:35 pm
Private prisons, as they expand outward, will "magicallyyy" be in place...as the inmate population "suddenly" starts to rise.  If there's no profit in it...it's not worth their time...and profit equates to a full house...overflow is better.

As was stated above...certain things should not ever be private business...it sets up a bottom line dynamic...and that becomes dangerous.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 15, 2011, 09:19:56 pm
So you're not going to answer my question, huh?


This question?



It was in reference to a News Item in the marquee referring to your persistent inability to "get along" with others without personal insults. But that is a closed subject now, isn't it?


Yes a closed subject, in a Crowd/MLG kind of way.

So again I ask, since closed question or not, hey you brought it up.  What personal insults?  I mean, what have I been doing that you've restrained yourself from doing?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 16, 2011, 07:32:36 am
classic..


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 16, 2011, 10:30:40 am
yup


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 16, 2011, 12:58:09 pm

This question?


Wrong question. You were already given the answer to that one by ekg. For some reason, you're incapable of reading it. This one:

Please explain how private prisons would be cheaper, and better.



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 16, 2011, 07:27:59 pm
Wrong question. You were already given the answer to that one by ekg. For some reason, you're incapable of reading it. This one:



I'm anxious to hear about those personal insults.  Care to fill me in?

As for the private prisons, thats simple outsourcing.  It's usually cheaper for a government entity to outsource services (some services) and put them up for competitive bidding rather than to provide them themselves.  Say running Florida State prisons cost x for the State, and the State wants to outsource it to cut their costs.  So therefore, they are not willing to pay more than y (a lessor amt than x).  The put it up for bid and any company that bids an amount that equals or is less than y should be in the running.  The goal is for the State to cut costs after all. 

Is there something about this that isn't obvious to you?  I didn't think this was the question because the answer seems kind of obvious, but apparently not.  What is it that you find so confusing about this process?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 16, 2011, 08:09:46 pm
I'm anxious to hear about those personal insults.  Care to fill me in?
The goal is for the State to cut costs after all. 

Really?

Thank God!

I thought when I worked for the State my job was to make sure dangerous nurses didn't get licensed! Hell, it cost a lot of money to hold those Nursing Boards (and Physician Boards and Construction Boards, etc.) every three months. Dammit, if we knew then that our job was to "save the state money" we could have forgotten all that and just gone ahead and licensed the bums!

I'm so glad to know now that it didn't matter as long as the State saved money!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 16, 2011, 09:06:55 pm
I'm anxious to hear about those personal insults.  Care to fill me in?

really?

you've been given your answer, you've been reminded of that answer, and you still want to ask?




As for the private prisons, thats simple outsourcing.  It's usually cheaper for a government entity to outsource services (some services) and put them up for competitive bidding rather than to provide them themselves.  Say running Florida State prisons cost x for the State, and the State wants to outsource it to cut their costs.  So therefore, they are not willing to pay more than y (a lessor amt than x).  The put it up for bid and any company that bids an amount that equals or is less than y should be in the running.  The goal is for the State to cut costs after all. 

Is there something about this that isn't obvious to you?  I didn't think this was the question because the answer seems kind of obvious, but apparently not.  What is it that you find so confusing about this process?

you've been given the answer on this also.. once by Howie, once by me, and once by chuck..

there are simply things that should not have a 'profit' attached to them.. and prisons are one of them. They breed corruption and that kind of corruption has major consequences to the general public.

you've been given examples of that... this plan is simply not 'better' than then shit we have now.

when the profit margin depends on the amount of inmates one has in it's prison, what do you suggest happen to keep profit high each year? of course more lenient judges and laws doesn't fit into your business plan, low recidivism  rates also aren't a good thing.. and hell, if you can set up harsh penalties for minor offenses while they're serving time, well that just keeps there on your book doesn't it?

 You can't sit there and act like there would never be any corruption in this kind of scenario, but corporate corruption seems to be OK with you and other libertarians.. the utopian philosophy of the 'market sorting it out' is just too great to acknowledge as the fairy tale that it truly is...

this kind of 'for profit' system is not better... as for cheaper?

only if they 'pad their prisons'

Quote
Section 1 of this paper reviews the available literature concerning private prison
performance and cost data. Data from Colorado and across the nation show that the
performance of private prisons has been troubled—poor inmate programs, security problems, and fiscal woes have befallen all of the major private prison companies.
Studies private prisons’ fiscal performance have yet to show any conclusive cost savings
through contracting. Moreover, some states (including Colorado) tend to send “low
cost” inmates (i.e., those with no medical or disciplinary problems) to private facilities,
leaving the DOC with the most difficult prisoners thus distorting cost savings.

huh, corruption.. who would have seen that coming ::)

Quote
When the Colorado DOC discusses privatization cost savings, it does so by making a
direct comparison between the cost of housing a medium security prisoner in a state
prison versus the legislatively-mandated price that the state pays private prisons. This
method of cost comparison is problematic since it fails to take into account administrative
overhead costs borne by the state. Section 2 examines the administrative costs that the
Colorado DOC absorbs for inmates in private facilities. Since these indirect (or
“hidden”) costs are not factored in to the cost per inmate per day for prisoners housed in
private prisons, the supposed cost savings may not exist
.

But I'm sure this has bee remedied in the last 10 years?

or has it?

I certainly don't know, but it doesn't look like it..

Quote
Cost and Performance Data
Some supporters of private prisons are motivated by an ideological belief in privatization
in all areas of government.
Other supporters are motivated by a genuine belief that
private contractors can do a better job than the state department of corrections (a claim
that has never been substantiated in research).
Among policy makers, however, the most
frequently cited basis for prison privatization is the claim that contract correctional
facilities cost the public less money
—that is the subject of this paper.


Quote
Perhaps the most comprehensive study of private prisons was published in 1998 to fulfill
a mandate from the U.S. Congress.
Attorney General Janet Reno was required by federal
statute to conduct a study of issues and trends in the private correctional industry. The
report, Private Prisons in the United States: An Assessment of Current Practice, was
prepared by contractor Abt Associates. When addressing cost savings, Abt reviewed
available literature and concluded that the “survey of recent cost studies does not resolve
the question of whether privately-managed prisons are cheaper than publicly-managed
ones. The evidence is mixed, with the more detailed studies indicating the smallest cost
savings from privatization.”
10


Quote
More recently, the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of
Justice Programs echoed this view, saying that “the cost benefits of privatization have not
materialized to the extent promised by the private sector. Although there are examples of
cost savings, there are other examples in which such benefits have not been realized.”
11


so it's not just a 'colorado thing'..

Quote
A 2001 report from Policy Matters Ohio documented a long-standing practice by Ohio
prison administrators who manage contracts with private facilities. The practice is
known as “cherry picking” and involves “sending less expensive inmates to [private
facilities], artificially inflating reported cost savings.
”12 The report produced evidence that
the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction intentionally placed inmates with no medical or disciplinary problems in private contract facilities


Like it's been said

Quote
There also exists anecdotal and published evidence pointing to inferior inmate services
and programs in private correctional facilities. From food service to medical care to
prisoner education to work programs, private facilities are inclined to cut program quality
and quantity in order to increase corporate profits.
A 1999 report on programs in
Minnesota prisons found that although programs in state-run prisons were far from
perfect, they were of measurably higher quality and more accessible than those in
privately-run prisons.

and more..
http://www.ccjrc.org/pdf/CostDataReport2002.pdf

this is something we've known for 10 years.. why in the hell are we still doing it?

Quote
Putting aside the moral question of whether it is appropriate to delegate
government police powers to private entities, the free market argument is deeply flawed
from a purely economic standpoint since the marketplace for private prisons is both a
monopsony and an oligopoly.
First, there is only one customer—the state—and even
though contract prisons are operated by private entities, the funding still comes entirely
from the public sector.
Second, private prisons are highly regulated by the government—
a practice which has proven to be necessary to ensure public safety, but which is
antithetical to a free market.
Finally, consider that there are only two major private
prison operators (CCA and Wackenhut), which together hold 77% of the private
corrections market, resulting in a thin market where states can become “captive to” their
own contractors due to limited competition within the industry
.19 With these factors
taken into consideration, the allure of competition turns out to be a myth.

because ideologues can't distinguish between reality and their utopian dreams..


more..

Quote
Final Conclusion XII-38 (p. 567)
The publicly operated prison, Avoyelles Correctional
Center, out-performed the two private prisons on several
measures.

..
..

Final Conclusion XII-41 (P. 573)
Private prisons probably have a definite place in any
state’s total prison system. However, in the Louisiana
case, the private prisons outperformed the public prison
largely because of dynamic competition which existed
among the three prisons. No state should consider a
totally privately operated prison system, nor should any
state do business exclusively with only one vendor. To
do so would result in the loss of dynamic competition.

another
Quote
http://archive.epinet.org/real_media/010111/materials/TravisPratt.pdf
These conclusions have important implications for both correctional policy makers and
researchers. First, this analysis provides policy makers with a more realistic and cautious
assessment of the relative efficiency (or lack thereof) of private prisons. Although specific
privatization policy alternatives may result in modest cost savings (e.g., private prison
construction and private contracts for specific services such as rehabilitation and medical
programs), relinquishing the responsibility of managing prisons to the private sphere is unlikely
to alleviate much of the financial burden on state correctional budgets

and here's a question... atleast prison guards are DOJ employees.. so if they have to react harshly to an inmate, they are 'cop-like' so it's considered 'ok'.. because we hope that they have been screen and trained.. but what of the private prison workers? Those are just McD's employees with authority, is that really what we want?

not too mention


Quote
http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/17/news/economy/private_prisons_economic_impact.fortune/index.htm
Law enforcement locked out of prison?

Arizona Attorney General Goddard says that his state Department of Corrections has nearly zero oversight over the prisons that house out-of-state inmates in his state.

"They don't have to show proof of financial responsibility, they don't have to comply with Arizona prison construction standards, they don't have to report disruptions. . .and both the training and staffing is up to the private operator," Goddard says. "There were a couple of private prisons that went on lockdown and refused to allow the Department of Corrections to come in."


Quote
Despite claims from companies like CCA, the jury seems to be out on whether private prisons end up saving governments money. An audit by the accounting firm MAXIMUS conducted for Arizona compared the cost of public and private corrections facilities in 2007 and found that, on average, private facilities ended up saving the state $5.49 per inmate per day.

But more recently, an internal Arizona Department of Corrections report released in February 2010, found that, in 2009, those savings narrowed to around $2.75 per inmate per day, and in certain instances, private facilities were found to cost even more per day than public ones.

Nothing about this is better or cheaper.. but it's a whole hell of a lot worse that's for sure.

one thing is certain, after 10 years of studies.. there still isn't any proof that this option is cheaper for the state..


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 16, 2011, 09:24:51 pm
Really?

Thank God!

I thought when I worked for the State my job was to make sure dangerous nurses didn't get licensed! Hell, it cost a lot of money to hold those Nursing Boards (and Physician Boards and Construction Boards, etc.) every three months. Dammit, if we knew then that our job was to "save the state money" we could have forgotten all that and just gone ahead and licensed the bums!

I'm so glad to know now that it didn't matter as long as the State saved money!

Taking things out of context becomes you.



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 16, 2011, 09:29:23 pm
really?

you've been given your answer, you've been reminded of that answer, and you still want to ask?



you've been given the answer on this also.. once by Howie, once by me, and once by chuck..

there are simply things that should not have a 'profit' attached to them.. and prisons are one of them. They breed corruption and that kind of corruption has major consequences to the general public.

you've been given examples of that... this plan is simply not 'better' than then shit we have now.

when the profit margin depends on the amount of inmates one has in it's prison, what do you suggest happen to keep profit high each year? of course more lenient judges and laws doesn't fit into your business plan, low recidivism  rates also aren't a good thing.. and hell, if you can set up harsh penalties for minor offenses while they're serving time, well that just keeps there on your book doesn't it?

 You can't sit there and act like there would never be any corruption in this kind of scenario, but corporate corruption seems to be OK with you and other libertarians.. the utopian philosophy of the 'market sorting it out' is just too great to acknowledge as the fairy tale that it truly is...

this kind of 'for profit' system is not better... as for cheaper?

only if they 'pad their prisons'

huh, corruption.. who would have seen that coming ::)

But I'm sure this has bee remedied in the last 10 years?

or has it?

I certainly don't know, but it doesn't look like it..




so it's not just a 'colorado thing'..


Like it's been said

and more..
http://www.ccjrc.org/pdf/CostDataReport2002.pdf

this is something we've known for 10 years.. why in the hell are we still doing it?

because ideologues can't distinguish between reality and their utopian dreams..


more..

another
and here's a question... atleast prison guards are DOJ employees.. so if they have to react harshly to an inmate, they are 'cop-like' so it's considered 'ok'.. because we hope that they have been screen and trained.. but what of the private prison workers? Those are just McD's employees with authority, is that really what we want?

not too mention



Nothing about this is better or cheaper.. but it's a whole hell of a lot worse that's for sure.

one thing is certain, after 10 years of studies.. there still isn't any proof that this option is cheaper for the state..

I think you didn't read my post.

Or you did.

That's OK.  The concepts are not really for you.  I've learned over the years that I'm not the one that can explain economics to you in a way you will understand.  Suffice it to say that if the State does it better and cheaper, they should do it.  If they can't, they shouldn't.  That should be the purpose of the bidding process, to see if you can get the service done cheaper.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 17, 2011, 10:22:59 am
I think you didn't read my post.

Or you did.

That's OK.  The concepts are not really for you.  I've learned over the years that I'm not the one that can explain economics to you in a way you will understand.  Suffice it to say that if the State does it better and cheaper, they should do it.  If they can't, they shouldn't.  That should be the purpose of the bidding process, to see if you can get the service done cheaper.

I read your post. The gist of it is that saving money trumps all. I certainly wouldn't be so brave as to call that "economics", though. Sometimes the bottom line isn't the way to go.

This is one of those cases, as you've been shown time and time again.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 17, 2011, 10:25:37 am
I'm anxious to hear about those personal insults.

I think you didn't read my post.

Or you did.

That's OK.  The concepts are not really for you.  I've learned over the years that I'm not the one that can explain economics to you in a way you will understand.

Here's a hint...

Let's try not to call each other stupid or ignorant or like terms that only degrade the discussion and bring it down to a personal level.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 17, 2011, 10:28:39 am
Taking things out of context becomes you.



Perhaps you could explain how that was taken out of context?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 17, 2011, 10:42:57 am
I think you didn't read my post.

as usual, you're the one who didn't read.. I not only read yours, but I answered it by providing studies/articles showing that while you think the  state's only goal is to save costs.. using a private prison isn't the way to do that..

Or you did.

That's OK.  The concepts are not really for you.  I've learned over the years that I'm not the one that can explain economics to you in a way you will understand.  Suffice it to say that if the State does it better and cheaper, they should do it.  If they can't, they shouldn't.  That should be the purpose of the bidding process, to see if you can get the service done cheaper.

let's just hope no one decides to corrupt the system by hiding the real costs before it's too late..  not too mention let's hope the other corruption problem don't factor in here either. Not that you seem to mind them, as long as they tell you it's cheaper seems to be about all you care about..





Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 17, 2011, 06:07:39 pm
as usual, you're the one who didn't read.. I not only read yours, but I answered it by providing studies/articles showing that while you think the  state's only goal is to save costs.. using a private prison isn't the way to do that..

let's just hope no one decides to corrupt the system by hiding the real costs before it's too late..  not too mention let's hope the other corruption problem don't factor in here either. Not that you seem to mind them, as long as they tell you it's cheaper seems to be about all you care about..





You seem to have two thesis's about privatization of prisons.  First, that they are inherently corrupt, and secondly, they don't do what they are sold to do: save money. 

I don't know why privatization  of prisons would be any more corrupt than than the privatization of any other service, or any State government purchase.  It seems all of the same circumstances would apply whether the State is shopping for contractors for prisons, or contractor's for janitorial services.  Or, for that matter, purchases, such as fleet vehicles.  What is it about prisons that make their privatization more susceptible to corruption than any other good or service that the state purchases?

As far as saving money, I can easily believe that a state can either make a bad deal, choose a bad contractor, or have poor oversight, and end up spending more money for few services.  I didn't discount your studies,  but that's not the rule with  privatization.  Privatization has been going on at the state level for decades, and while every contract isn't a winner, overall it's performed well and has been a boon to the taxpayers.  So is every contract a bad deal that hurts the taxpayers in your opinion or is this just an ideological thing?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 17, 2011, 06:13:00 pm
Perhaps you could explain how that was taken out of context?

I'll do better than that, I'll show you.

Really?

Thank God!

I thought when I worked for the State my job was to make sure dangerous nurses didn't get licensed! Hell, it cost a lot of money to hold those Nursing Boards (and Physician Boards and Construction Boards, etc.) every three months. Dammit, if we knew then that our job was to "save the state money" we could have forgotten all that and just gone ahead and licensed the bums!

I'm so glad to know now that it didn't matter as long as the State saved money!

Now, we were talking about the purpose of contracting out services, the purpose of which is to save money.  That has exactly zero to do with a licensing board job.  So why you wanted to distract the conversation to that, I've no idea.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on May 17, 2011, 09:08:55 pm
You seem to have two thesis's about privatization of prisons.  First, that they are inherently corrupt, and secondly, they don't do what they are sold to do: save money. 

wait, you mean I can't have two reasons why I dislike this idea.

huh.. I didn't know that.


I don't know why privatization  of prisons would be any more corrupt than than the privatization of any other service, or any State government purchase.  It seems all of the same circumstances would apply whether the State is shopping for contractors for prisons, or contractor's for janitorial services.  Or, for that matter, purchases, such as fleet vehicles.  What is it about prisons that make their privatization more susceptible to corruption than any other good or service that the state purchases?

answered.. repeatedly already.


As far as saving money, I can easily believe that a state can either make a bad deal, choose a bad contractor, or have poor oversight, and end up spending more money for few services.  I didn't discount your studies,  but that's not the rule with  privatization.  Privatization has been going on at the state level for decades, and while every contract isn't a winner, overall it's performed well and has been a boon to the taxpayers.  So is every contract a bad deal that hurts the taxpayers in your opinion or is this just an ideological thing?

obviously not every contract is a bad deal.. but when it comes to privatizing prisons, the majority of them are... and since it's not just money, but also humans we're talking about.. taking the risk just isn't worth what little, if any, reward.. since in some cases you're talking about a saving of only a few pennies per prisoner.. but with that saving you lost security and prisoner's escaped..

it's just not worth it.. for many reasons..


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 17, 2011, 09:21:12 pm
I can honestly say that in my research of this topic since I learned of Jan Brewer's plans for Arizona's prisons, I've only found one article in support of privatizing prisons.

That was from The Reason Foundation.

Duh.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on May 17, 2011, 10:02:29 pm
I can honestly say that in my research of this topic since I learned of Jan Brewer's plans for Arizona's prisons, I've only found one article in support of privatizing prisons.

That was from The Reason Foundation.

Duh.

Love 'em!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on May 17, 2011, 10:19:15 pm
Love 'em!
Duh #2


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on February 04, 2012, 11:56:15 am
What am I dismissing? The facts? The facts are that the farmer broke the law by shipping unpasteurized milk across state lines. The facts are that the farmer ignored repeated cease and desist orders from the FDA. The facts are that the FDA had to take the farmer to civil court, not criminal court, to enforce the law.

The law:

I'm well aware of those FACTS. They are substantiated by court records. What is not substantiated by anything are the claims by Alex Jones, Fox Nation, and others that the FDA did anything wrong other than piss off a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists by doing their fucking job.

If you, ekg, or lilMike are unhappy with the government's regulation of unsafe food, feel free to contact your congressman and let them know.

Until then, the FDA did nothing wrong.

Case closed.

WINNING!

I understand this a lot better now!

http://www.examiner.com/green-living-in-national/monsanto-lobbyist-uses-power-as-fda-food-czar-to-target-amish (http://www.examiner.com/green-living-in-national/monsanto-lobbyist-uses-power-as-fda-food-czar-to-target-amish)


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 04, 2012, 12:10:17 pm
I understand this a lot better now!

http://www.examiner.com/green-living-in-national/monsanto-lobbyist-uses-power-as-fda-food-czar-to-target-amish (http://www.examiner.com/green-living-in-national/monsanto-lobbyist-uses-power-as-fda-food-czar-to-target-amish)

Sorry, you don't. As usual.

He was appointed looooong after these Amish kooks broke the law.

I have been thinking about resurrecting this thread, thanks to Gov. Scott's insistence that his cronies within the private prison business rake in more cash...


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on February 04, 2012, 04:53:33 pm
Sorry, you don't. As usual.

He was appointed looooong after these Amish kooks broke the law.

I have been thinking about resurrecting this thread, thanks to Gov. Scott's insistence that his cronies within the private prison business rake in more cash...

At least the administration knows who it's enemies are!

Apparently consenting adults have a reason to cry over spilled milk.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 04, 2012, 05:38:33 pm
At least the administration knows who it's enemies are!

Apparently consenting adults have a reason to cry over spilled milk.

You do know it was under the Bush administration, right?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on February 04, 2012, 10:27:25 pm
You do know it was under the Bush administration, right?

Are we talking about the Monsanto guy?  He returned to the FDA in 2009.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 05, 2012, 04:33:59 pm
Are we talking about the Monsanto guy?  He returned to the FDA in 2009.

You do know the stuff with the Amish has been going on since 2006, right? Raids, everything.

Damn socialist Bush!


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on February 05, 2012, 06:02:50 pm
You do know the stuff with the Amish has been going on since 2006, right? Raids, everything.

Damn socialist Bush!

Ah now I understand!

Bush was wrong on this.  I'm not like you guys where I have to fall in line with whatever dear leader says, whether it's assassinating US citizens or detaining them indefinity.  Those are contradictions that you guys have to work out.  I don't have that problem.

I think it's stupid to prosecute Amish for selling unpasteurized milk.  It doesn't matter to me if Bush or Obama is the President.  Of course for you guys, whose President is all that matters.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 05, 2012, 10:20:11 pm
Ah now I understand!

Bush was wrong on this.  I'm not like you guys where I have to fall in line with whatever dear leader says, whether it's assassinating US citizens or detaining them indefinity.  Those are contradictions that you guys have to work out.  I don't have that problem.

I think it's stupid to prosecute Amish for selling unpasteurized milk.  It doesn't matter to me if Bush or Obama is the President.  Of course for you guys, whose President is all that matters.

They weren't prosecuted for selling unpasteurized milk. You know that, don't you?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 06, 2012, 06:22:04 pm
Ah now I understand!

Bush was wrong on this.  I'm not like you guys where I have to fall in line with whatever dear leader says, whether it's assassinating US citizens or detaining them indefinity.  Those are contradictions that you guys have to work out.  I don't have that problem.

I think it's stupid to prosecute Amish for selling unpasteurized milk.  It doesn't matter to me if Bush or Obama is the President.  Of course for you guys, whose President is all that matters.

I've often voiced displeasure with some of Obama's actions. And with this one (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/monsanto-petition-tells-obama-cease-fda-ties-to-monsanto/2012/01/30/gIQAA9dZcQ_blog.html).

Quote
In 2009, President Obama appointed Michael Taylor as a senior adviser for the FDA. Consumer groups protested the appointment because Taylor had formerly served as a vice president for Monsanto, the controversial agricultural multinational at the forefront of genetically modified food.

In recent days, a petition calling for the former Monsanto VP’s ouster is gaining steam.

“President Obama, I oppose your appointment of Michael Taylor,” the petition on Signon.org reads. “Taylor is the same person who was Food Safety Czar at the FDA when genetically modified organisms were allowed into the U.S. food supply without undergoing a single test to determine their safety or risks. This is a travesty.”

Taylor, who may or may not be behind the original Amish raids, certainly is behind the latest (http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2011/06/07/food-safety-chief-defends-raw-milk-raids/).
Quote
Obama food safety chief and former Monsanto lawyer Michael R. Taylor today defended the FDA’s sting operations and armed raids against raw milk producers, including Pennsylvania Amish farmer Dan Allgyer, who is facing an injunction for selling milk across state lines. None of Allgyer’s milk was contaminated. The agency’s actions are likely to put him out of business.

“We believe we’re doing our job,” Taylor said at a presentation at the Ogilvy Washington public affairs group. He promised to “keep doing our public health job,” and described his agency’s campaign against raw milk producers as based on a “public health duty” and “statutory directive.”

Taylor said he had a “quibble” with the notion that the agency is spending too much of its resources targeting boutique raw milk producers even as huge contamination outbreaks have occurred among large Iowa egg farms and elsewhere.

The FDA is in the midst of writing the critical regulations that will implement the Food Safety Modernization Act Congress passed last year with applause all around from the Obama administration, Democrats and Republicans despite ferocious opposition from small-farm advocates. The sweeping new law gives the agency extraordinary powers to detain foods on farms. It also denies farmers recourse to federal courts.

But is this the result of so-called "cronyism"? I don't think so. It is the result of another bureaucrat/lobbyist sneaking his way into government.




Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: lil mike on February 06, 2012, 07:14:07 pm
I've often voiced displeasure with some of Obama's actions. And with this one (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/monsanto-petition-tells-obama-cease-fda-ties-to-monsanto/2012/01/30/gIQAA9dZcQ_blog.html).

Taylor, who may or may not be behind the original Amish raids, certainly is behind the latest (http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2011/06/07/food-safety-chief-defends-raw-milk-raids/).
But is this the result of so-called "cronyism"? I don't think so. It is the result of another bureaucrat/lobbyist sneaking his way into government.




I don't think he "sneaked" in.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 06, 2012, 07:34:01 pm
I don't think he "sneaked" in.

Maybe his friend Clarence Thomas helped?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 06, 2012, 09:42:56 pm
Ah now I understand!


I think it's stupid to prosecute Amish for selling unpasteurized milk.  It doesn't matter to me if Bush or Obama is the President.  Of course for you guys, whose President is all that matters.

you guys?  really?

wow, if only here was some way for you to know that your 'you guys' was bullshit and quite a large fib...I mean, if there were posts or something where those 'you guys' had said the same exact thing.....

oh well, I guess we'll never know and you can just go on fibbing..

as for " whose President is all that matters".... coming from a member of the party of No, I find that amusing..



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 22, 2012, 05:10:24 pm
They weren't prosecuted for selling unpasteurized milk. You know that, don't you?

hmmmm...another unanswered question.

Anyhow, about that milk: (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/21/feds-fresh-milk-150-times-dangerous-pasteurized/)

Quote
The federal government said Tuesday that fresh milk is 150 times more dangerous than pasteurized milk — a finding that bolsters the government’s argument as it goes after farmers who sell unpasteurized milk across state lines (**cough** **cough**.

After a 13-year review, the taxpayer-funded Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said states where so-called “raw milk” is available had twice the rate of dairy-related disease outbreaks as states where those sales are banned.

And disease outbreaks from fresh milk are more serious in nature, according to the study, which found 200 out of 239 hospitalizations during the study stemmed from cases of fresh milk.

“Restricting the sale of raw milk products is likely to reduce the number of outbreaks and can help keep people healthier,” said Dr. Robert Tauxe, director of CDC’s division of foodborne, waterborne and environmental diseases. “The states that allow sale of raw milk will probably continue to see outbreaks in the future.”



Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 23, 2012, 11:22:52 am
lol  I still don't agree with it, :-*


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 23, 2012, 11:49:52 am
lol  I still don't agree with it, :-*

Feel free to feed some to the girls and let us know how that turns out.  ;)


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 23, 2012, 09:07:02 pm
Feel free to feed some to the girls and let us know how that turns out.  ;)

I have, in France.. and it was pretty damn awesome.

also, when I was little, we used to get raw milk from a cow guy we knew.. we never had any problems with it..

I"m not saying it's all good, but neither is what is on the shelf's today with all the hormones and antibiotics... and selling raw milk to people who want it, should be allowed and not treated like some meth drug deal.. :D


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 23, 2012, 09:58:19 pm
I have, in France.. and it was pretty damn awesome.

also, when I was little, we used to get raw milk from a cow guy we knew.. we never had any problems with it..

I"m not saying it's all good, but neither is what is on the shelf's today with all the hormones and antibiotics... and selling raw milk to people who want it, should be allowed and not treated like some meth drug deal.. :D

Don't matter. We're both lactose intolerant. The day after  one of our infrequent ice cream splurges would  probably put a hole in the atmosphere Al Gore couldn't fix.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 24, 2012, 09:12:40 am
Don't matter. We're both lactose intolerant. The day after  one of our infrequent ice cream splurges would  probably put a hole in the atmosphere Al Gore couldn't fix.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-toilet07.gif)


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 24, 2012, 11:21:38 am
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-toilet07.gif)

True story. One I will be killed for when he sees this. Jb has a weak stomach. He heard me laughing my ass off last night and asked me what I was watching. I told him it was Monday's Two and a half men. ;D

This morning I made him watch it. Thank God there was a bucket on the patio.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 24, 2012, 10:12:10 pm
True story. One I will be killed for when he sees this. Jb has a weak stomach. He heard me laughing my ass off last night and asked me what I was watching. I told him it was Monday's Two and a half men. ;D

This morning I made him watch it. Thank God there was a bucket on the patio.

HA!

Had I been Allan, I would have paid Berta $1000 to clean that bathroom... LOL


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 24, 2012, 10:31:28 pm
HA!

Had I been Allan, I would have paid Berta $1000 to clean that bathroom... LOL

Your toilet gif made me think of it.

"Ohhhh Johnny look at the toilet!"

"Brrrraawaapppp!!!!!!!!!!!"

I'm not mean, am I?


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 26, 2012, 06:38:19 pm
I'll do better than that, I'll show you.

Now, we were talking about the purpose of contracting out services, the purpose of which is to save money.  That has exactly zero to do with a licensing board job.  So why you wanted to distract the conversation to that, I've no idea.

Damn. Looking over this thread to post something about the level of corruption in our state government (and most of the prisons haven't been privatized yet!) I found this from almost a year and I missed this comment and feel a need to have the final say.  :D

The point I was making was that while I worked at a State Agency, I thought our goal was to prevent nurses with drug, alcohol or psychological problems from being licensed. If our job was to save the State money we wouldn't have given a damn and just licensed them.

Of course, lilMike probably realized that one point proved my argument about privatizing prisons.

Anyhow...

Quote
...the level of corruption in our state government (and most of the prisons haven't been privatized yet!)

So this is what our Republican-led State Legislature has become? Two gangs of thugs (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/strong-arms-and-strong-stands-in-tallahassee/1216588) breaking arms and threatening others just to pass a prison privatization bill? Ya know...if this had been a Democratic Legislature folks would have been raising hell. If it had been the Obama administration...well, you know.  ;)

Quote
What are things in the Florida Legislature coming to when one senator needs protection to walk on the Senate floor? • The debate over privatizing much of Florida's prison system last week probably marks one of the few times a couple of senators provided an escort for one of their colleagues — from the opposing political party, no less. • It attracted little attention last week when Sens. Charles Dean, R-Inverness, and Jack Latvala, R-Clearwater, walked onto the Senate floor before the debate on privatizing prisons with Sen. Larcenia Bullard, D-Miami, between them. • Bullard, who has been seriously ill with a recurring heart condition, had been in tears after days of pressure from Senate leaders and lobbyists who wanted her to be the deciding vote in favor of a bill that would have privatized 27 South Florida prisons.

Quote
It's probably no coincidence that this week Gaetz and Thrasher unsuccessfully tried to seize control of a battle over who will follow Gaetz as Senate president. One of those contestants happens to be Latvala, one of the key opponents of the prison privatization bill.

The Senate vote on prison privatization followed weeks of intrigue. Several senators questioned why the Republican leadership rushed the bill through without allowing it to be considered by committees that traditionally review criminal justice issues. And the search for votes to support it was relentless.

The Democrats, including Bullard, were solidly opposed. That didn't stop Republican supporters of the legislation from beating a path to her door.

On the day of the final Senate vote, Rich and several other women senators accompanied Bullard back to her office after extricating her from a committee room where she had been lobbied by Thrasher and Alexander.

Summoned by Rich, Sens. Audrey Gibson, D-Jacksonville, and Arthenia Joyner, D-Tampa, stayed with Bullard for the remainder of the day to fend off colleagues determined to change her mind.

"It was straight out of a gangster movie,'' Gibson said as she described the effort. "Arthenia and I are her sorority sisters so we wanted to sit with her and let her know we had her back.''

Gibson said supporters of the prison privatization bill were "dead-set to get it through at whatever cost."

"But we had the same vehemence to make sure she was able to be there and vote and not in the hospital,'' Gibson added. "Nobody should pounce on somebody's weakness. That's just not right.''

damn...


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: Howey on February 26, 2012, 06:51:26 pm
PS:

If you really want to see how sick our state is, read some of the comments on that article.


Title: Re: The Man Who Gives Corrupt a Whole New Meaning
Post by: ekg on February 26, 2012, 09:15:30 pm
Damn. Looking over this thread to post something about the level of corruption in our state government (and most of the prisons haven't been privatized yet!) I found this from almost a year and I missed this comment and feel a need to have the final say.  :D

The point I was making was that while I worked at a State Agency, I thought our goal was to prevent nurses with drug, alcohol or psychological problems from being licensed. If our job was to save the State money we wouldn't have given a damn and just licensed them.

Of course, lilMike probably realized that one point proved my argument about privatizing prisons.

Anyhow...

So this is what our Republican-led State Legislature has become? Two gangs of thugs (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/strong-arms-and-strong-stands-in-tallahassee/1216588) breaking arms and threatening others just to pass a prison privatization bill? Ya know...if this had been a Democratic Legislature folks would have been raising hell. If it had been the Obama administration...well, you know.  ;)

damn...

if those tactics don't prove someone is going to be raking in the $$$$ then what does it prove? what, that they'll save money? ahhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhha

sure.. thug-life is all about the savings..