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2012 national defense act craps on the US Constitution.


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Author Topic: 2012 national defense act craps on the US Constitution.  (Read 2207 times)
44nutman
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« on: December 05, 2011, 01:46:44 pm »

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-and-the-tea-party-cant-save-you-2012-national-defense-act-is-terrifying-2011-12

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."---Benjamin Franklin

This might be the scariest bill I have ever read. So it looks I can be detained indefinitely without any rights. I don't get the Tea Party, who wrap themselves in the Constitution every chance they get but  vote for this bill. I wrote both of my senators and told them, they do not have a  prayer of having my vote after voting for this bill. Rubio is doing the rounds defending this bill. Our elected officials are supposed to uphold the Constitution and not destroy it. If our Forefathers came back from the dead, the first thing they would do is get armed and storm D.C.
The corporate controlled media dropped the ball on this one. We have to hear about Hermans, bitches and the only guy I know who could run a casino in the ground, moderating a debate.
When will the people in this country wake the fuck up.

Nothing like using the terrorist witch hunt to violate the masses rights.
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Howey
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 02:28:06 pm »

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-and-the-tea-party-cant-save-you-2012-national-defense-act-is-terrifying-2011-12

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."---Benjamin Franklin

This might be the scariest bill I have ever read. So it looks I can be detained indefinitely without any rights. I don't get the Tea Party, who wrap themselves in the Constitution every chance they get but  vote for this bill. I wrote both of my senators and told them, they do not have a  prayer of having my vote after voting for this bill. Rubio is doing the rounds defending this bill. Our elected officials are supposed to uphold the Constitution and not destroy it. If our Forefathers came back from the dead, the first thing they would do is get armed and storm D.C.
The corporate controlled media dropped the ball on this one. We have to hear about Hermans, bitches and the only guy I know who could run a casino in the ground, moderating a debate.
When will the people in this country wake the fuck up.

Nothing like using the terrorist witch hunt to violate the masses rights.

Yeah...lilMike tried to blame this on Obama the other day:

Republican you say?

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-issues-executive-order-institutionalizing-indefinite-detention

President Obama Issues Executive Order Institutionalizing Indefinite Detention

Administration Also Announces It Will Use Military Commissions For New Terrorism Cases

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: (212) 549-2666; media@aclu.org

NEW YORK – President Obama today issued an executive order that permits ongoing indefinite detention of Guantánamo detainees while establishing a periodic administrative review process for them. The administration also announced it will lift the ban on bringing new military commissions charges against detainees that don’t already have ongoing cases in the substandard system.


He also said this too. I'm still trying to get myself from rolling on the floor over it!


Quote
Why would you be so worried that I might try to make Obama “look bad?”  That doesn’t make any sense.
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lil mike
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 07:25:42 pm »

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-and-the-tea-party-cant-save-you-2012-national-defense-act-is-terrifying-2011-12

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."---Benjamin Franklin

This might be the scariest bill I have ever read. So it looks I can be detained indefinitely without any rights. I don't get the Tea Party, who wrap themselves in the Constitution every chance they get but  vote for this bill. I wrote both of my senators and told them, they do not have a  prayer of having my vote after voting for this bill. Rubio is doing the rounds defending this bill. Our elected officials are supposed to uphold the Constitution and not destroy it. If our Forefathers came back from the dead, the first thing they would do is get armed and storm D.C.
The corporate controlled media dropped the ball on this one. We have to hear about Hermans, bitches and the only guy I know who could run a casino in the ground, moderating a debate.
When will the people in this country wake the fuck up.

Nothing like using the terrorist witch hunt to violate the masses rights.

This is actually a real thing, not just something that's been overblown.  The language is just vague enough to be dangerous.  And you're right, this is receiving zero  MSM attention. 

But I don't see how you view this as a tea party thing.  The entire Senate, except for these 7, voted for it.

 Sen. Thomas Harken (IA), Rand Paul (KY), Thomas Coburn (OK), Jeff Merkley (OR), Ron Wyden (OR), Mike Lee (UT), and Bernard Sanders (VT).
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 07:32:16 pm by lil mike » Report Spam   Logged
lil mike
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 07:31:12 pm »

Yeah...lilMike tried to blame this on Obama the other day:

He also said this too. I'm still trying to get myself from rolling on the floor over it!



When you get off the floor tell me who Senator Levin said asked that the original language of the bill exempted US citizens?

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951  at 4:43.
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44nutman
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 07:34:19 pm »

anyone suspected of terrorism against the United States be held in military custody indefinitely. This provision extends to American citizens on American territory.

I am glad my step dad retired from the military because he would have to arrest me if I was "suspected" of being a terrorist. Then I could rot in a jail with no chance at a jury of my peers.




In Russia, you can always find a party. In America, Party finds you! What a Country!
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Howey
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 08:05:53 pm »

When you get off the floor tell me who Senator Levin said asked that the original language of the bill exempted US citizens?

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/SenateSession4951  at 4:43.

Yeah...and I listened a couple of minutes more and heard why, Mr. Breitbart.

In Russia, you can always find a party. In America, Party finds you! What a Country!


Yakov?

Zat you??
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 08:10:34 pm by Howey » Report Spam   Logged

uselesslegs
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 02:41:03 pm »

I think what Nutty was saying, was that for all the flag wrapping and Constitutional idolatry the Tea Party envelopes itself in, you'd think THEY (of any of our reps) would have gone ape shit and made sure this never saw the light of day.  Instead, for all their patriotic bluster, they wiped their asses with the constitution...along with everyone else.

He was pointing out the irony and obviously hollow legislative resolve they possess. 
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lil mike
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2011, 03:31:54 pm »

I think what Nutty was saying, was that for all the flag wrapping and Constitutional idolatry the Tea Party envelopes itself in, you'd think THEY (of any of our reps) would have gone ape shit and made sure this never saw the light of day.  Instead, for all their patriotic bluster, they wiped their asses with the constitution...along with everyone else.

He was pointing out the irony and obviously hollow legislative resolve they possess. 

Constitutional Idolatry?  I take it you're not a believer...

But what I find ironic, is that Nutty singled out the Tea Party, when of the 7 Senators who voted against the bill, 2 are Tea Partiers:  Rand Paul (KY),  and Mike Lee (UT), and Tom Coburn is Tea Party friendly.  Considering how few Tea Partiers are in the Senate, that is a much better percentage of opposition than any other caucus in the Senate.  So don't blame this debacle on the Tea Party. When it comes to irony & hypocrisy, there is much more ammo to fling around in other directions.
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lil mike
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2011, 03:33:13 pm »

Yeah...and I listened a couple of minutes more and heard why, Mr. Breitbart.




OK let me have it.  What I heard was that the Obama administration requested that the language exempting US citizens be removed.  What did I miss?
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Howey
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 04:34:56 pm »

OK let me have it.  What I heard was that the Obama administration requested that the language exempting US citizens be removed.  What did I miss?

Listen and see.
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44nutman
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 10:18:48 am »

Constitutional Idolatry?  I take it you're not a believer...

But what I find ironic, is that Nutty singled out the Tea Party, when of the 7 Senators who voted against the bill, 2 are Tea Partiers:  Rand Paul (KY),  and Mike Lee (UT), and Tom Coburn is Tea Party friendly.  Considering how few Tea Partiers are in the Senate, that is a much better percentage of opposition than any other caucus in the Senate.  So don't blame this debacle on the Tea Party. When it comes to irony & hypocrisy, there is much more ammo to fling around in other directions.

I should have left the Tea Party out of it, and used the word Republicans but it is getting hard to differentiate between the two anymore. DR. Paul's  seed is trying to fight this bill. Any Senator who voted for this bill, no matter what letter is after their name have failed their oath to uphold the Constitution.
I sent a letter to both Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio and told them neither one of them would ever get my vote if they voted for this assualt on my constitutional freedoms. I actually said, even if Satan ran against them I would vote for the devil himself because I know my current Senators from my state do not care for the freedoms, that make this country great. If Satan won and did not honor his oath to defend the constitution, I would vote the Lord of Darkness out as well.
My civil liberties are being reduced little by little one bill at a time all in the name of protecting my family. How about protecting my freedoms as well.
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uselesslegs
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 01:24:48 pm »

Constitutional Idolatry?  I take it you're not a believer...

But what I find ironic, is that Nutty singled out the Tea Party, when of the 7 Senators who voted against the bill, 2 are Tea Partiers:  Rand Paul (KY),  and Mike Lee (UT), and Tom Coburn is Tea Party friendly.  Considering how few Tea Partiers are in the Senate, that is a much better percentage of opposition than any other caucus in the Senate.  So don't blame this debacle on the Tea Party. When it comes to irony & hypocrisy, there is much more ammo to fling around in other directions.

I would have expected it to be across the board, no exceptions.

I, personally, applaud any and all who voted against this abortion of freedom.

When I said Constitutional Idolatry, it was to highlight the fervor that seems to be paramount concerning the Constitution by the TP, as if no one else could possibly (or does) honor it's greatness like they can, which I find insulting...AND...they invoke it so much, it starts becoming farcical...all the more so...when something like this even makes it (with it's current language) for a vote...let alone, not making it a unanimous "Fuck no!" 

I fault them differently, because they raised the bar concerning their love of the Constitution. They platformed on it, they highlighted with deep passion their love and respect of it.

I fault them in the same vein as I would a staunch Family Values Rep., getting caught with a hooker, a mistress, having gay sex.  It revels the obviously false blustering and commitment to the thing they wield as an ideal, as a "better than" you shield.
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 03:30:58 pm »


My civil liberties are being reduced little by little one bill at a time all in the name of protecting my family. How about protecting my freedoms as well.

I've been screaming about this for years.. sadly, it's worse than 'in the name of protecting your family'.. because the reality is it's in the name of your freedoms being thrown away so someone else's family can feel 'faux' safe at night.. your family isn't even on the radar, they will strip you and yours of rights faster than a cat can lick its ass if it means they feel safe.

the odd thing is, these same people will have epileptic fits if the government even looks at a higher tax rate because ya know, gov't should stay out of our lives and all.

I cannot fathom the mind that says "make gov't small" while trying to make gov't  so intrusive in ones private life that it is tasked with deciding which medical procedures women should have.. or  the claims that 'gov't is the root of evil", while wanting gov't to decide who should love who.. I hear the term 'social conservative' and I laugh because it's always these same people begging for the gov't to tell you and I what to do (because they don't like it..) who do everything in their power to destroy the gov't power to do anything..

are they retarded that they don't see the hypocrisy?
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 05:08:41 pm »

I should have left the Tea Party out of it, and used the word Republicans but it is getting hard to differentiate between the two anymore. DR. Paul's  seed is trying to fight this bill. Any Senator who voted for this bill, no matter what letter is after their name have failed their oath to uphold the Constitution.
I sent a letter to both Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio and told them neither one of them would ever get my vote if they voted for this assualt on my constitutional freedoms. I actually said, even if Satan ran against them I would vote for the devil himself because I know my current Senators from my state do not care for the freedoms, that make this country great. If Satan won and did not honor his oath to defend the constitution, I would vote the Lord of Darkness out as well.
My civil liberties are being reduced little by little one bill at a time all in the name of protecting my family. How about protecting my freedoms as well.

I find it ridiculously easy to tell the difference between the Republicans and the Tea Party, but I admit I may be closer to the issue than you.  You guys seem to think of the Tea Party as a super conservative verison of the Republicans, but the Tea Party's primary target in 2010 were Republicans, not Democrats.  They want to take over the Republican party, not join the establishment.  Of course over time we'll see how that works out...

But even using Republicans, when they are a minority in the Senate, doesn't really get to the core of the problem.  The core hypocrisy is all of the liberal Democrats who voted for this, when they opposed every anti terrorism measure of the Bush administration.  Sometimes not because the measures were themselves bad, but because of the slippery slope.  Well, this legislation is the bottom of the slippery slope and they voted for it.  And it wasn't even close, it was a landslide vote.

So if you are not going to vote for Nelson because he supported it (no support for Rubio is a given) what about Obama?  It's his measure after all.
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44nutman
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 05:36:28 pm »

I find it ridiculously easy to tell the difference between the Republicans and the Tea Party, but I admit I may be closer to the issue than you.  You guys seem to think of the Tea Party as a super conservative verison of the Republicans, but the Tea Party's primary target in 2010 were Republicans, not Democrats.  They want to take over the Republican party, not join the establishment.  Of course over time we'll see how that works out...

But even using Republicans, when they are a minority in the Senate, doesn't really get to the core of the problem.  The core hypocrisy is all of the liberal Democrats who voted for this, when they opposed every anti terrorism measure of the Bush administration.  Sometimes not because the measures were themselves bad, but because of the slippery slope.  Well, this legislation is the bottom of the slippery slope and they voted for it.  And it wasn't even close, it was a landslide vote.

So if you are not going to vote for Nelson because he supported it (no support for Rubio is a given) what about Obama?  It's his measure after all.
I might throw away my vote on Ron Paul. He is kooky but he is not bought.
I can't vote for Mitt Kerry, even though at one time in his life he has been on my side on every issue.
Newt, looks great in the debates but he is an insider, and has been going Conservetard lately. Newts skeletons will kill him.
I would be Herman's wing man at a club but never would have voted for him.
Would vote for Huntsman but the only way he would get elected is to shoot Elton John or some other famous gay celebrity. Huntsmen views on China are spot on but he is not Conservtard enough for his own party.
Bachman and Santorum, I would only vote for them if a gun was to my head and still would have to ponder the vote.
Perry is an idiot.
I think that covers them all.
The funny thing the GOP needs to look at 2004 on how this election is going to play out. The left thought no way Bush gets re-elected but the Dems put up an idiot against him.
Obama has been worse with my personal freedoms than Bush. The whole gunning down a US citizen without a trial, was my last straw. Obama is going to pull out all the troops in Iraq before the election, tout his toughness on terrorist(which with Osama gone he can) and what little gains in the economy he makes will help him out.
Cliff notes.
The 2nd time in the last 3 presidential elections I am going to vote for the lesser evil of the two.
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