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Title: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 05, 2011, 02:53:30 pm The House Republican's plan to end Medicare (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/medicare/159423-camp-puts-damper-on-gops-medicare-overhaul); the one they already voted on against the wishes of the American people.
Didn't I say Ryan and gang shot themselves in the foot on this one? (http://popculturedoneright.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,413.0.html) Free ammunition for every Democrat running against the idiots who voted in favor of this next year. Quote The chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee said Thursday he has no interest in bringing up House Republicans' proposal to replace Medicare with subsidies for private insurance if it's not going to pass the Senate. "I'm not really interested in laying down more markers," said Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.). "I'd rather have the committee working with the Senate and with the president to focus on savings and reforms that can be signed into law." Camp made his remarks to reporters at a Health Affairs policy breakfast. They came as Vice President Biden opens up bipartisan talks on raising the debt ceiling. Camp said he supports the Medicare overhaul put forward by Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) but that it appears to be going nowhere in the Democratic-controlled Senate. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 08:08:26 am Should we feel sorry for all the republicans who were talked into voting for this mess by their leadership, then going home and getting bitch-slapped by their constituents, then heading back to DC to find out those same leaders have now jumped ship too?
NOPE! (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/us/politics/06fiscal.html?_r=1&hp) Quote WASHINGTON — House Republicans signaled Thursday that they were backing away from the centerpiece of their budget plan — a proposal to overhaul Medicare — in a decision that underscored both the difficulties and political perils of addressing the nation’s long-term fiscal problems... “I’m not interested in talking about whether the House is going to pass a bill that the Senate shows no interest in,” Mr. Camp said in an appearance at the National Press Club. “I’m not interested in laying down more markers. I am interested in solutions.” Coupled with remarks by other House Republican leaders, his statement suggested that the party’s Medicare proposal had been shelved, even though the party’s lawmakers had taken a risky vote to pass the budget in the House just last month, and in the past two weeks had attempted to sell it to constituents in often-stormy town hall meetings. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: 44nutman on May 06, 2011, 09:03:54 am We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice.
This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: ekg on May 06, 2011, 10:03:00 am The House Republican's plan to end Medicare (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/medicare/159423-camp-puts-damper-on-gops-medicare-overhaul); the one they already voted on against the wishes of the American people. Didn't I say Ryan and gang shot themselves in the foot on this one? (http://popculturedoneright.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,413.0.html) Free ammunition for every Democrat running against the idiots who voted in favor of this next year. does that mean Reid isn't going to call a vote on it? Title: Re: DEAD Post by: ekg on May 06, 2011, 10:24:51 am We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice. This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction. why can't we have an income contingency level? I know everyone pays in, but at some point everyone must realize that there is a cost to live in this society.. we're the best for a reason and those reasons come at a price.. so, why can't we say anyone with assets and income X amount, cannot receive SS or medicare? We all pay for Food stamps whether we use them or not and they have an income restriction.. so what's the problem with SS/Medicare for the upper income levels? we also need to stop doctor-fraud-waste.. here's a story.. my g/ma had a stroke 2 days before Easter and she fell and destroyed her wrist.. She went to ER a few hours after the paramedics refused to take her because in their opinion, she was fine.. ::) anyway, after about a week of being on the neuro-ward.. her gastro doc stopped in.. no reason, just dropped by.. ya know, to check on her..she thought it was nice of him.. well sure it was, just as it's nice of her to carry such great insurance that he can make a buck when he files a consulting doctor claim on her.. There is simply no reason for this kind of 'abuse'... sure, it's not a lot for this single consult, but when you multiply that by millions of consults just like it every year, well then you're getting into a hell of a lot of money.. of course if we just went to a modified type of single-payer system we wouldn't have to worry about any of that, but we're not there.... yet.. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 11:25:04 am does that mean Reid isn't going to call a vote on it? I don't know but wouldn't it be great if he did? Title: Re: DEAD Post by: ekg on May 06, 2011, 11:29:14 am I don't know but wouldn't it be great if he did? Last heard he was.. but since OBL, there really hasn't been talk of much else, so maybe he's changed his mind.. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: uselesslegs on May 06, 2011, 12:21:52 pm As long as we keep applying the most extreme mindset to what constitutes "business", we'll be stuck in this loop of abuse that views common sense as a "hindrance." We've already reached the "ends justify the means" mindset and it's all down hill from here, everyone for themselves. Ms. Rand would be proud.
I'm in this fight for selfish reasons, admittedly. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: 44nutman on May 06, 2011, 01:19:01 pm why can't we have an income contingency level? I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S. I know everyone pays in, but at some point everyone must realize that there is a cost to live in this society.. we're the best for a reason and those reasons come at a price.. so, why can't we say anyone with assets and income X amount, cannot receive SS or medicare? We all pay for Food stamps whether we use them or not and they have an income restriction.. so what's the problem with SS/Medicare for the upper income levels? we also need to stop doctor-fraud-waste.. here's a story.. my g/ma had a stroke 2 days before Easter and she fell and destroyed her wrist.. She went to ER a few hours after the paramedics refused to take her because in their opinion, she was fine.. ::) anyway, after about a week of being on the neuro-ward.. her gastro doc stopped in.. no reason, just dropped by.. ya know, to check on her..she thought it was nice of him.. well sure it was, just as it's nice of her to carry such great insurance that he can make a buck when he files a consulting doctor claim on her.. There is simply no reason for this kind of 'abuse'... sure, it's not a lot for this single consult, but when you multiply that by millions of consults just like it every year, well then you're getting into a hell of a lot of money.. of course if we just went to a modified type of single-payer system we wouldn't have to worry about any of that, but we're not there.... yet.. There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well. The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians. Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%. Obama is estimated to have over a billion dollar war chest. That is fucking insane, that running for office has become a big business. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 02:06:09 pm I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S. There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well. As I've said many times before, a true socialized health care program, providing health care to every citizen, would eliminate the need for both Medicare and Medicaid. Fraud, misunderstanding of complex rules and regulations, extremely slow payment for services, and greedy insurance companies are the crux of the problems with Medicare/Medicaid. The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians. Something else I've said a million times. Get rid of lobbyists and influence peddlers. Establish a limit on the amount of money used to finance a campaign, do away with political ads, provide free televised debates focusing on the issues. I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S. Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%. Again....like that really worked out the last time around! Title: Re: DEAD Post by: ekg on May 06, 2011, 02:59:44 pm I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S. There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well. The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians. Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%. Obama is estimated to have over a billion dollar war chest. That is fucking insane, that running for office has become a big business. well now you're just a free speech hater! ::) here's my question.. how can anyone.. anyone.. think a corporation is out for the good of anyone other than that corporation? They are required to,by law, do what ever is in their power to turn a profit.. that right there ensures they will fuck whomever they can. That is not capitalism, that is bullshit. There is no such thing as a good capitalist society, it's a utopia that can never be obtained because we are all humans.. and humans have 'greed'.. greed kills capitalism just as fast as it kills socialism... The market cannot regulate because it will not be allowed to. Big Corp A, is going to do everything they can to put all the eggs in their baskets so you buy theirs, and only their, widgets.. So corp B just never has a chance and withers are dies.. our system is based on greed since greed is a naturally occurring human condition and these days, we've been told it's not only good.. but it's now legal... and yet the blind ideologues will sell every soul they can because they have bought into the utopia fable of capitalism.. it's an insanity that amazes me each and every day.. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: uselesslegs on May 06, 2011, 04:46:52 pm I think what bothers me the most is that unethical practices are the new norm in big business now. You don't have to really hide your head in shame if you're caught anymore. People bitch and whine, but it's pretty much accepted that that's how you have to conduct yourself to make dem big bucks. Instead of being fringe or outcast...most of them easily rub the shit off their collar and go right back to business. The masses don't punish them, hell, you practically can't anymore. Even if you boycotted their products or services, you're still giving them cash through one of 100's of other interests.
Even if you could mind control the masses and make everyone boycott the living hell out of products galore...all you would be doing is hurting the smaller businesses. The big boys, while greedy as hell...can wait you out and teach you a lesson when you finally come crawling back. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: lil mike on May 06, 2011, 07:19:06 pm We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice. This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction. When, to you, is eventually? I mean, is it before the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, or after? Or maybe after the world bond market decides it's had enough of US Treasury bonds and we have to jack interest rates in the double digits to get buyers? At that point, it will be too late to do anything other than the government running out of money halfway through the budget year and can't make those medicare and social security payments. And is that 100 years off or closer to 100 months? Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 06, 2011, 08:30:18 pm When, to you, is eventually? I mean, is it before the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, or after? Or maybe after the world bond market decides it's had enough of US Treasury bonds and we have to jack interest rates in the double digits to get buyers? At that point, it will be too late to do anything other than the government running out of money halfway through the budget year and can't make those medicare and social security payments. And is that 100 years off or closer to 100 months? Were the currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security the result of them being funded with bonds or are our financial problems due to Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds? Title: Re: DEAD Post by: lil mike on May 07, 2011, 02:32:08 pm Were the currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security the result of them being funded with bonds or are our financial problems due to Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds? Sorry, I could only get as far as "currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security" and couldn't stop laughing! I already know your answer. It's totally drained of reason and accounting. I was asking Nutty because he can actually provide more than a talking point. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: 44nutman on May 09, 2011, 09:28:56 am When, to you, is eventually? I mean, is it before the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, or after? Or maybe after the world bond market decides it's had enough of US Treasury bonds and we have to jack interest rates in the double digits to get buyers? At that point, it will be too late to do anything other than the government running out of money halfway through the budget year and can't make those medicare and social security payments. What I meant by eventually is we will have to deal with it, at some point. Right now we have 3 choices, increase revenue, cut costs or a combination of both. I think we are trying to deflate the dollar which would work temporarily but in long term is not a great decision. It is like owning two cows and killing one because your hungry. Sure you get to eat but lose the ability to get more cows in the future. And is that 100 years off or closer to 100 months? These latest budget talks, made me even more aware our bloated government will never be able to get shit done due to too much money is being thrown at D.C. These patrons have way too much money invloved to let their employees vote for any reasonable cuts because those cuts will affect someone that gives money to the representatives. The representatives argue that money is needed to run, which is illustrated by Obama's BILLION DOLLAR war chest. The only cuts they can make are to projects which affect the middle class and poor. Those groups financially do not donate money to anyone. They are individuals but, individually are lower on the totem pole than the "individual corporations". If you follow the money you will realize that lobbyists run our country and too greedy to understand they are killing it. Short term gains rule over long term prosperity. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: lil mike on May 09, 2011, 11:16:10 am What I meant by eventually is we will have to deal with it, at some point. Right now we have 3 choices, increase revenue, cut costs or a combination of both. I think we are trying to deflate the dollar which would work temporarily but in long term is not a great decision. It is like owning two cows and killing one because your hungry. Sure you get to eat but lose the ability to get more cows in the future. These latest budget talks, made me even more aware our bloated government will never be able to get shit done due to too much money is being thrown at D.C. These patrons have way too much money invloved to let their employees vote for any reasonable cuts because those cuts will affect someone that gives money to the representatives. The representatives argue that money is needed to run, which is illustrated by Obama's BILLION DOLLAR war chest. The only cuts they can make are to projects which affect the middle class and poor. Those groups financially do not donate money to anyone. They are individuals but, individually are lower on the totem pole than the "individual corporations". If you follow the money you will realize that lobbyists run our country and too greedy to understand they are killing it. Short term gains rule over long term prosperity. What I'm worried about is that eventually will be coming sooner rather than later. And at that point, it will be too late. We'll have an austerity budget to beat all austerity budget because there just won't be any money. Then what happens to Medicare? But, as Howey made clear, there is a large section of this country that thinks there is no fiscal crisis, and all you have to do raise taxes on the rich and the problems will be solved. Unfortunately, the rich don't have near that kind of dough. Nobody does. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 09, 2011, 12:21:04 pm But, as Howey made clear, there is a large section of this country that thinks there is no fiscal crisis, and all you have to do raise taxes on the rich and the problems will be solved. Unfortunately, the rich don't have near that kind of dough. Nobody does. Once again, you're oversimplifying my response. What I said was: Were the currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security the result of them being funded with bonds or are our financial problems due to Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds? See...you missed "currently". Although both are projected to be in the red sometime in the future, they're solvent now. Currently, our financial "crisis" (it really isn't) is specifically due to "Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds". Why do I say that? Because without those the deficit wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today. Title: Re: DEAD Post by: lil mike on May 09, 2011, 06:58:10 pm Once again, you're oversimplifying my response. What I said was: See...you missed "currently". Although both are projected to be in the red sometime in the future, they're solvent now. Currently, our financial "crisis" (it really isn't) is specifically due to "Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds". Why do I say that? Because without those the deficit wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today. What was the federal budget deficit in 2007, after two wars, tax cuts, and Medicare Part D? Title: Re: DEAD Post by: Howey on May 11, 2011, 11:33:45 am What was the federal budget deficit in 2007, after two wars, tax cuts, and Medicare Part D? Try this (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490&utm_source=twitter) (instead of answering a question with a question and/or repeating tired old Republican talking points): (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/48b0356f13.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/) Quote Some lawmakers, pundits, and others continue to say that President George W. Bush’s policies did not drive the projected federal deficits of the coming decade — that, instead, it was the policies of President Obama and Congress in 2009 and 2010. But, the fact remains: the economic downturn, President Bush’s tax cuts and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years (see Figure 1). The deficit for fiscal year 2009 — which began more than three months before President Obama’s inauguration — was $1.4 trillion and, at 10 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the largest deficit relative to the economy since the end of World War II. At $1.3 trillion and nearly 9 percent of GDP, the deficit in 2010 was only slightly lower. If current policies remain in place, deficits will likely resemble those figures in 2011 and hover near $1 trillion a year for the next decade. The events and policies that pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term were, for the most part, not of President Obama’s making. If not for the Bush tax cuts, the deficit-financed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the effects of the worst recession since the Great Depression (including the cost of policymakers’ actions to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term. By themselves, in fact, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will account for almost half of the $20 trillion in debt that, under current policies, the nation will owe by 2019. The stimulus law and financial rescues will account for less than 10 percent of the debt at that time. The highly credible source: http://www.cbpp.org/about/ Title: Re: DEAD Post by: FooFa on May 11, 2011, 12:40:40 pm I think what bothers me the most is that unethical practices are the new norm in big business now. You don't have to really hide your head in shame if you're caught anymore. People bitch and whine, but it's pretty much accepted that that's how you have to conduct yourself to make dem big bucks. Instead of being fringe or outcast...most of them easily rub the shit off their collar and go right back to business. The masses don't punish them, hell, you practically can't anymore. Even if you boycotted their products or services, you're still giving them cash through one of 100's of other interests. Even if you could mind control the masses and make everyone boycott the living hell out of products galore...all you would be doing is hurting the smaller businesses. The big boys, while greedy as hell...can wait you out and teach you a lesson when you finally come crawling back. It's part of the thing that I can't comprehend about at least some peoples human nature. I don't understand the notion that you have to make more this year than last every single year and if not you're somehow failing. Like when Sam was living he cared about the employees having time off and used to close in the evening at a certain time. Fast forward to now and they're not giving FT hours to anyone but department managers, no discount card for 6 months or a year, no health options for at least six months. The people who have been there forever and in some cases are making well over 20 an hour have been pushed and prodded to different shifts and things they didn't care to do, for the sole purpose of course of trying to get them to leave. |