DEAD

[Howey]

The House Republican's plan to end Medicare; the one they already voted on against the wishes of the American people.

Didn't I say Ryan and gang shot themselves in the foot on this one? Free ammunition for every Democrat running against the idiots who voted in favor of this next year.

The chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee said Thursday he has no interest in bringing up House Republicans' proposal to replace Medicare with subsidies for private insurance if it's not going to pass the Senate.

"I'm not really interested in laying down more markers," said Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.). "I'd rather have the committee working with the Senate and with the president to focus on savings and reforms that can be signed into law."

Camp made his remarks to reporters at a Health Affairs policy breakfast. They came as Vice President Biden opens up bipartisan talks on raising the debt ceiling.

Camp said he supports the Medicare overhaul put forward by Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) but that it appears to be going nowhere in the Democratic-controlled Senate.

[Howey]

Should we feel sorry for all the republicans who were talked into voting for this mess by their leadership, then going home and getting bitch-slapped by their constituents, then heading back to DC to find out those same leaders have now jumped ship too?

NOPE!

WASHINGTON — House Republicans signaled Thursday that they were backing away from the centerpiece of their budget plan — a proposal to overhaul Medicare — in a decision that underscored both the difficulties and political perils of addressing the nation’s long-term fiscal problems...

“I’m not interested in talking about whether the House is going to pass a bill that the Senate shows no interest in,” Mr. Camp said in an appearance at the National Press Club. “I’m not interested in laying down more markers. I am interested in solutions.”

Coupled with remarks by other House Republican leaders, his statement suggested that the party’s Medicare proposal had been shelved, even though the party’s lawmakers had taken a risky vote to pass the budget in the House just last month, and in the past two weeks had attempted to sell it to constituents in often-stormy town hall meetings.

[44nutman]

We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice.
This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction.

[ekg]

The House Republican's plan to end Medicare; the one they already voted on against the wishes of the American people.

Didn't I say Ryan and gang shot themselves in the foot on this one? Free ammunition for every Democrat running against the idiots who voted in favor of this next year.
 

does that mean Reid isn't going to call a vote on it?

[ekg]

We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice.
This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction.

why can't we have an income contingency level?

I know everyone pays in, but at some point everyone must realize that there is a cost to live in this society.. we're the best for a reason and those reasons come at a price.. so, why can't we say anyone with assets and income X amount, cannot receive SS or medicare? We all pay for Food stamps whether we use them or not and they have an income restriction.. so what's the problem with SS/Medicare for the upper income levels?

we also need to stop doctor-fraud-waste.. here's a story..

my g/ma had a stroke 2 days before Easter and she fell and destroyed her wrist.. She went to ER a few hours after the paramedics refused to take her because in their opinion, she was fine..

anyway, after about a week of being on the neuro-ward.. her gastro doc stopped in.. no reason, just dropped by.. ya know, to check on her..she thought it was nice of him.. well sure it was, just as it's nice of her to carry such great insurance that he can make a buck when he files a consulting doctor claim on her..

There is simply no reason for this kind of 'abuse'... sure, it's not a lot for this single consult, but when you multiply that by millions of consults just like it every year, well then you're getting into a hell of a lot of money..

of course if we just went to a modified type of single-payer system we wouldn't have to worry about any of that, but we're not there.... yet..

[Howey]

does that mean Reid isn't going to call a vote on it?

I don't know but wouldn't it be great if he did?

[ekg]

I don't know but wouldn't it be great if he did?

Last  heard he was.. but since OBL, there really hasn't been talk of much else, so maybe he's changed his mind..

[uselesslegs]

As long as we keep applying the most extreme mindset to what constitutes "business", we'll be stuck in this loop of abuse that views common sense as a "hindrance."  We've already reached the "ends justify the means" mindset and it's all down hill from here, everyone for themselves.  Ms. Rand would be proud.

I'm in this fight for selfish reasons, admittedly. 

[44nutman]

why can't we have an income contingency level?

I know everyone pays in, but at some point everyone must realize that there is a cost to live in this society.. we're the best for a reason and those reasons come at a price.. so, why can't we say anyone with assets and income X amount, cannot receive SS or medicare? We all pay for Food stamps whether we use them or not and they have an income restriction.. so what's the problem with SS/Medicare for the upper income levels?

we also need to stop doctor-fraud-waste.. here's a story..

my g/ma had a stroke 2 days before Easter and she fell and destroyed her wrist.. She went to ER a few hours after the paramedics refused to take her because in their opinion, she was fine..

anyway, after about a week of being on the neuro-ward.. her gastro doc stopped in.. no reason, just dropped by.. ya know, to check on her..she thought it was nice of him.. well sure it was, just as it's nice of her to carry such great insurance that he can make a buck when he files a consulting doctor claim on her..

There is simply no reason for this kind of 'abuse'... sure, it's not a lot for this single consult, but when you multiply that by millions of consults just like it every year, well then you're getting into a hell of a lot of money..

of course if we just went to a modified type of single-payer system we wouldn't have to worry about any of that, but we're not there.... yet..

I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S.
There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well.
The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians. Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%.
Obama is estimated to have over a billion dollar war chest. That is fucking insane, that running for office has become a big business.

[Howey]

I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S.
There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well.

As I've said many times before, a true socialized health care program, providing health care to every citizen, would eliminate the need for both Medicare and Medicaid. Fraud, misunderstanding of complex rules and regulations, extremely slow payment for services, and greedy insurance companies are the crux of the problems with Medicare/Medicaid.

The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians.

Something else I've said a million times. Get rid of lobbyists and influence peddlers. Establish a limit on the amount of money used to finance a campaign, do away with political ads, provide free televised debates focusing on the issues.

I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S.
Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%.
 

Again....like that really worked out the last time around!

[ekg]

I agree, it is not like Bill Gates is worried about working at Publix when he retires to supplement his S.S.
There also needs to be reforms in the medical billing. The problem is 3 fold, one the hospitals over charging(but fraud does get you elected governor), lawyers suing everyone, and the insurance companies price fixing. Those items need to be addressed as well.
The problem is each one of those groups make it rain in D.C while watching our elected officials wiggle on the pole. You ain't seen nothing yet, thanks to the Supreme Court selling out our country to what ever Corporation has the deepest pockets. You and I are not represented in our government and until so, will constantly be bent over with our pants around our ankles without the common courtesy of a reach around. We have no hope unless we go all Farrah Fawcett, Buring Bed style on our politicians. Instead of gasoline, vote out every single incumbent until they understand our government represents all of America and not 1%.
Obama is estimated to have over a billion dollar war chest. That is fucking insane, that running for office has become a big business.

well now you're just a free speech hater! 

here's my question..

how can anyone.. anyone.. think a corporation is out for the good of anyone other than that corporation?  They are required to,by law, do what ever is in their power to turn a profit.. that right there ensures they will fuck whomever they can. That is not capitalism, that is bullshit. There is no such thing as a good capitalist society, it's a utopia that can never be obtained because we are all humans.. and humans have 'greed'.. greed kills capitalism just as fast as it kills socialism... The market cannot regulate because it will not be allowed to.  Big Corp A, is going to do everything they can to put all the eggs in their baskets so you buy theirs, and only their, widgets.. So corp B just never has  a chance and withers are dies..

our system is based on greed since greed is a naturally occurring human condition and these days, we've been told it's not only good.. but it's now legal... and yet the blind ideologues will sell every soul they can because they have bought into the utopia fable of capitalism..

it's an insanity that amazes me each and every day..

[uselesslegs]

I think what bothers me the most is that unethical practices are the new norm in big business now.  You don't have to really hide your head in shame if you're caught anymore.  People bitch and whine, but it's pretty much accepted that that's how you have to conduct yourself to make dem big bucks.  Instead of being fringe or outcast...most of them easily rub the shit off their collar and go right back to business.  The masses don't punish them, hell, you practically can't anymore.  Even if you boycotted their products or services, you're still giving them cash through one of 100's of other interests.

Even if you could mind control the masses and make everyone boycott the living hell out of products galore...all you would be doing is hurting the smaller businesses.  The big boys, while greedy as hell...can wait you out and teach you a lesson when you finally come crawling back.

[lil mike]

We do need to do something with Medicare and Social Security eventually because the cost are only getting higher. That being said the GOP screwed up by keeping the tax breaks for the rich and asking everyone else but the rich to sacrifice.
This is why nothing will ever been done with our budget until it is too late. The system is no longer designed to make tough decisions. The lobbyists and the voter expect government to spend money on them and the elected official has no other choice to contribute to our deficit addiction.

When, to you, is eventually?  I mean, is it before the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, or after?  Or maybe after the world bond market decides it's had enough of US Treasury bonds and we have to jack interest rates in the double digits to get buyers?  At that point, it will be too late to do anything other than the government running out of money halfway through the budget year and can't make those medicare and social security payments.

And is that 100 years off or closer to 100 months?

[Howey]

When, to you, is eventually?  I mean, is it before the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, or after?  Or maybe after the world bond market decides it's had enough of US Treasury bonds and we have to jack interest rates in the double digits to get buyers?  At that point, it will be too late to do anything other than the government running out of money halfway through the budget year and can't make those medicare and social security payments.

And is that 100 years off or closer to 100 months?

Were the currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security the result of them being funded with bonds or are our financial problems due to Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds?

[lil mike]

Were the currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security the result of them being funded with bonds or are our financial problems due to Medicare Part D, excessive tax cuts for the rich and the financing of two wars with the bonds?

Sorry, I could only get as far as "currently nonexistent financial problems with medicare and social security" and couldn't stop laughing!

I already know your answer.  It's totally drained of reason and accounting.  I was asking Nutty because he can actually provide more than a talking point.