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Yes, Virginia, there is another libertarian in Congress.

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44nutman
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« on: March 12, 2011, 11:50:25 am »

I thought these guys/gals only existed in rhetoric but not actually walking the walk. I thought the T-party got co-opted by the GOP and were used to get elected. You know the ones that hate brown people, gheys and aborted feti(or is it fetuses, fetus') I saw the GOP budget proposal and it was very un T-party like. As usual a bunch of bluster and really no results. I kind of called that when friend of tobacco, Weepin, Cheatin Boehner was trying to pass himself off as a fiscal conservative. I knew it was going to be same old shit but a different asshole.  I lost hope and then saw this speech from Rand Paul. I guess he is like his father and says what he means. I don't agree with all of his beliefs(goes to extreme on some issues) but could get behind this one. Federal Government has become too bloated with employees.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMqcLQzD-aA&feature=player_embedded
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Howey
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 12:25:11 pm »

Ya know, Nutty...

lilMike's gonna jump through his computer screen and kiss ya for supporting his hero; the self-appointed Libertarian/Teabagger physician opthamologist without a license who supports dismantling Medicare but wants them to keep on paying him since more than half of his patients are Medicare (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/05/14/rand-paul-cut-spending-but-not-medicare-doctor-payments/tab/print/), and FooFa's probably gonna be right behind lilMike considering Paul's crazy conspiracy theories (Obama got elected because he brainwashed us).




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44nutman
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 02:28:52 pm »

Did not say I agree with all his ideas but any cut to the budget has to include medicare, the military and raise the age of Social Security. He is right anything else is not going to work. His dad is also the only one to have balls to say the wars need to end. They are talking about helping Libya, and  Paul the Elder rightly said it is not feasible and we can't afford to be the worlds police. Let someone else take care of Libya. Half of the middle east and europe have our equipment let them use it to help LIbya.
I totally support the idea of getting rid of some of these bloated departments and sending them back to the states. We have 2 choices go bankrupt or fix the problem. We can not continue to run trillion dollar deficits, that is insane. The new budgets from both sides is sorely lacking any teeth.
Don't worry about Paul the Elder getting elected president Fox news is already putting up lies about him and there is no way that bastion of neo-conism would support Paul. They will point the sheep at some tired old candidate such as Horny Newt, Crazy Cliche Machine Palin, Flip Flop Romney, or Used to not talk crazy talk but now pandering to the crazies Huckabee.

My prediction for 2012, Paul the Elder plays the role of Ralph Nader and Obama keeps the presidency. The hard core T-party/libertarians are feeling like a girl who woke up in a fraternity. They are realizing the GOP was just wooing them for the votes/sex(Newt was stressed out, and when Newty is stressed, hide your women.) and now that they have been elected it is time for them to leave and make the walk of shame. I am seeing some rumblings of scorned T-party members. Most think the GOP budget offering is some twisted joke.  They thought is was more than a one nighter/election.
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 04:01:15 pm »

Did not say I agree with all his ideas but any cut to the budget has to include medicare, the military and raise the age of Social Security. He is right anything else is not going to work. His dad is also the only one to have balls to say the wars need to end. They are talking about helping Libya, and  Paul the Elder rightly said it is not feasible and we can't afford to be the worlds police. Let someone else take care of Libya. Half of the middle east and europe have our equipment let them use it to help LIbya.
I totally support the idea of getting rid of some of these bloated departments and sending them back to the states. We have 2 choices go bankrupt or fix the problem. We can not continue to run trillion dollar deficits, that is insane. The new budgets from both sides is sorely lacking any teeth.
Don't worry about Paul the Elder getting elected president Fox news is already putting up lies about him and there is no way that bastion of neo-conism would support Paul. They will point the sheep at some tired old candidate such as Horny Newt, Crazy Cliche Machine Palin, Flip Flop Romney, or Used to not talk crazy talk but now pandering to the crazies Huckabee.

My prediction for 2012, Paul the Elder plays the role of Ralph Nader and Obama keeps the presidency. The hard core T-party/libertarians are feeling like a girl who woke up in a fraternity. They are realizing the GOP was just wooing them for the votes/sex(Newt was stressed out, and when Newty is stressed, hide your women.) and now that they have been elected it is time for them to leave and make the walk of shame. I am seeing some rumblings of scorned T-party members. Most think the GOP budget offering is some twisted joke.  They thought is was more than a one nighter/election.

Before I go on, are you aware the Hon. Sen. Paul accused the President of breaking his toilet?

Furthermore, before I go on, let's talk about Medicare and Social Security, as well as military retirement/disability. Generic Disclaimer: Be glad this isn't elsewhere, where I understand the stupid word is being bandied about en masse today.

I've worked my entire fucking life. I've paid heavily into the Social Security trust fund and have had ridiculous amounts of money deducted from my paychecks so that I, and those who worked before me could live the remainder of their lifes in peace without (too much) worry about medical care and could live off a small pension. These people fought for our country in three wars. If they couldn't fight, those like Rosie the Riveter, would toil away in manufacturing to ensure the guys fighting had the tools to fight.

Fourty-three years ago, our youth were sent off to the jungles of Southeast Asia to fight an unnecessary and unwinnable war against an ideology our government scorned. Over the next eight years, over fifty thousand of these young men and women were killed, and hundreds of thousands more were permanently scarred - both physically and mentally. To make matters worse, they came home to be greeted not as heroes, but were scorned by the Americans they fought for.

These folks earned the right to live the remainder of their lifes without worrying about medical care and to draw a small pension in order to live. Who in the Hell in Congress, or any legislative body, has the fucking nerve to say these people are suddenly liable to have these benefits taken away? Those brave men who fought an unnecessary war in Vietnam, now approaching retirement age aren't worthy? How about the hundreds of thousands of men and women who fought two unneccessary and unwinnable wars in the Middle East? Those two wars our government borrowed money from to fight - an action that actually created this deficit! They're not worthy?

That is Rep. Paul Ryan, newly enthroned head of the House Budget Committee:

Quote
Republicans this week conceded that the government's budget can't be balanced this decade without cutting into current retirees' Medicare and Social Security benefits, something they've indicated they're unwilling to do.


So. There you have it. Our country has a deficit, created by borrowing to fight two wars, an unneeded prescription drug plan pushed through Congress by the pharmaceutical companies, and countless tax breaks through the years for the rich. And the only thing our fucking Republican Congress can come up with to resolve the crisis is the same old shitHuh?

Quote
Cut taxes on the rich to create jobs.

How many fucking times are we going to fall for this???

Here's an idea. Let's try something different. Something that's actually worked before!

Quote
Schumer endorsed the approaches taken by Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton, both of whom reduced or eliminated deficits by cutting discretionary spending and addressing entitlements and tax revenues. He identified achievable savings on all three flanks, including cuts to defense spending, agriculture subsidies, and a surtax on millionaires and billionaires.


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"I noted with interest last week's Wall Street Journal/NBC poll, the most popular proposal to reduce the deficit out of 23 options surveyed was a tax -- a surtax -- on millionaires and billionaires," Schumer said. "It's not only a popular thing to do, it's the right thing to do."

Dammit. I could have put that in a blog.
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lil mike
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 06:44:15 pm »

Here's an idea. Let's try something different. Something that's actually worked before!
 

Dammit. I could have put that in a blog.

I actually am mulling over that concept to put in a blog.  I suspect you won't like my conclusions.

It's true, that the budget can't be balanced this decade without cutting current retirees.  But I have not heard any possible plan, including Paul Ryan's, that suggests doing anything like that.

As far as Rand Paul goes.  I think he's the real deal, and won't bend to Mitch McConnell unless he gets real concessions for it.  That is extremely worthwhile to have someone like that in the Senate.

And as far as working your entire life, yeah, you and everyone else.  In fact, since you've been retired for years I doubt you are anywhere near winning "most heavily worked" any time soon.  In the meantime, you are totally blurring veterans benefits and medicare and social security.  By the way, you've not been paying into a "trust fund."  The surplus for each year has gone into general revenues and was spent on ...NPR and such.  Social Security got an iou based on the day, which has arrived this year, that we have to raise general revenue to pay back the program. Not that you have any right to social security or Medicare.  You paid taxes, not premiums.  The SC ruled years ago that we're owed shit for whatever we paid.

It's sad that you're so delusional about where our debt and budget outlook problems lie.  Maybe if Think Progress can be convinced...
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 07:49:09 pm »

Why do these people, continuall­y do this? There's always some "extra" element that blows it out of the water.

"I'm for livable and inflation adjusted wages for American workers.".­.."Yea!"

"If elected, the American people deserve serious answers, inquiries and to see possible prosecutio­ns of those individual­s who brought America financiall­y to it's knees."...­"Yea!"

"If we ALL must share in the sacrifice of bringing our country back to financial stability, then ALL means, NO EXCEPTIONS­."..."Yea!­"

"I will fight convention and do my utmost to insist that campaign finance reform and term limits become reality.".­.."Yea!"

"Every 3rd Thursday of each month, every American will dress up as a Bald Eagle to show their patriotism­."..."Ye..­..What?"

"Christian­ity will be the default religion that is assigned to every American at birth. Wishes to change said religion can only occur once you're 21 and then only after a tribunal has determined that your mental health or an outside radicalize­d influence has not impaired your judgment."­..."uhhhhh­hhhhhhhh."

"The Amazing Race will now be 10 teams, guns and a last man standing."­..."What the He#*!?"”
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 08:03:02 pm »

As far as Rand Paul goes.  I think he's the real deal, and won't bend to Mitch McConnell unless he gets real concessions for it.  That is extremely worthwhile to have someone like that in the Senate.

I know you think he's the real deal. Along with Ryan.

As far as Rand Paul goes.  I think he's the real deal, and won't bend to Mitch McConnell unless he gets real concessions for it.  That is extremely worthwhile to have someone like that in the Senate.

The surplus for each year has gone into general revenues and was spent on ...NPR and such.

I think a hell of a lot more was borrowed to fight two unnecessary wars than to fund NPR.  Wink

Why do these people, continuall­y do this? There's always some "extra" element that blows it out of the water.

"I'm for livable and inflation adjusted wages for American workers.".­.."Yea!"

"If elected, the American people deserve serious answers, inquiries and to see possible prosecutio­ns of those individual­s who brought America financiall­y to it's knees."...­"Yea!"

"If we ALL must share in the sacrifice of bringing our country back to financial stability, then ALL means, NO EXCEPTIONS­."..."Yea!­"

"I will fight convention and do my utmost to insist that campaign finance reform and term limits become reality.".­.."Yea!"

"Every 3rd Thursday of each month, every American will dress up as a Bald Eagle to show their patriotism­."..."Ye..­..What?"

"Christian­ity will be the default religion that is assigned to every American at birth. Wishes to change said religion can only occur once you're 21 and then only after a tribunal has determined that your mental health or an outside radicalize­d influence has not impaired your judgment."­..."uhhhhh­hhhhhhhh."

"The Amazing Race will now be 10 teams, guns and a last man standing."­..."What the He#*!?"”

HOLY SHIT!


I'm honored, Sir. Welcome!
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 09:04:37 pm »

Why do these people, continuall­y do this? There's always some "extra" element that blows it out of the water.

"I'm for livable and inflation adjusted wages for American workers.".­.."Yea!"

"If elected, the American people deserve serious answers, inquiries and to see possible prosecutio­ns of those individual­s who brought America financiall­y to it's knees."...­"Yea!"

"If we ALL must share in the sacrifice of bringing our country back to financial stability, then ALL means, NO EXCEPTIONS­."..."Yea!­"

"I will fight convention and do my utmost to insist that campaign finance reform and term limits become reality.".­.."Yea!"

"Every 3rd Thursday of each month, every American will dress up as a Bald Eagle to show their patriotism­."..."Ye..­..What?"

"Christian­ity will be the default religion that is assigned to every American at birth. Wishes to change said religion can only occur once you're 21 and then only after a tribunal has determined that your mental health or an outside radicalize­d influence has not impaired your judgment."­..."uhhhhh­hhhhhhhh."

"The Amazing Race will now be 10 teams, guns and a last man standing."­..."What the He#*!?"”

where have you been?
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 09:23:08 pm »

Using Howies logic, let's just make medicare/medicaid/social security available only to those citizens who have served in the military.
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 09:41:10 pm »

Using Howies logic, let's just make medicare/medicaid/social security available only to those citizens who have served in the military.

I'm sorry if my post implied that. My intent was to show that everone contributes and for anyone to take away Ss, medicare, et al to pay for mismanagement of our countries finances is not the way to go.

Let those who put us in this situation make the sacrifices.

Why do the poor and elderly have to attune for the sins of the rich?
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 10:16:17 am »

I know you think he's the real deal. Along with Ryan.

I think a hell of a lot more was borrowed to fight two unnecessary wars than to fund NPR.  Wink


Two?   So Afghanistan is not the "war we must win?"

Interesting...
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 10:31:30 am »

I'm sorry if my post implied that. My intent was to show that everone contributes and for anyone to take away Ss, medicare, et al to pay for mismanagement of our countries finances is not the way to go.

Let those who put us in this situation make the sacrifices.

Why do the poor and elderly have to attune for the sins of the rich?

The people who put us in this situation are politicians who decades ago decided it would be a great idea to buy votes with public funds, and deliberately set up programs that pushed the costs into the future instead of paying for themselves.  Because, if we had to pay the full cost of the programs from the beginning, we probably wouldn't have been so enthusiastic to have programs like that.  We want programs in which we think we are getting more in benefits than we're paying out for them in taxes.  But to pull that big of a Madoff-like chicanery off, you have to defer the costs into the future.  In a word, a ponzi scheme.

As John Maynard Keynes said, in the long run we will all be dead, which worked out great for those politicians who set up those programs.  They're dead and and are regarded as heros of the poor and elderly, even though they set up a system that was doomed to collapse and screw the poor and elderly.

So that's why the poor and elderly (and everyone else) will be atoning for those previous sins.  However the "rich" didn't set up our ponzi scheme social safety net, your political heros did.
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 10:54:46 am »

So that's why the poor and elderly (and everyone else) will be atoning for those previous sins.  However the "rich" didn't set up our ponzi scheme social safety net, your political heros did.

That's a statement we'll never agree on. I suspect the atonement of the poor and elderly will be at a far greater scale than the "rich". If Social Security is somehow eliminated, say for those Puffy's age, it will most likely be privatized into a "ponzi scheme" with the poor and elderly's finances being manipulated by the rich in the markets.

We see how that went before, huh? How many millions of people have worthless retirement funds now thanks to improper investment of their money by folks?
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 02:35:09 pm »

The problem arises when what the taxes are suppose to be paying for, start jumping ship to other areas.  When the penny starts to get thin, you can't ignore why it's getting thin.  I agree with lilmike, with regards to, that there has to be accountability.

But I'll disagree that SS can't work...it works quite well if it's coffers are left alone.  But it seems neither the Government, nor the potential for private investment, can ensure the stability and safety of the funds.  So perhaps, we need to look at other options down the road, that can negate the human greed equation.

I know, speaking for myself, that the meager (and I mean meager) funds that I receive are keeping me from going to some crippled graveyard somewhere and dying, but that's only possible because what I receive is supplemented by a roommate situation and should they move on...I'm literally fucked.

My doctor and I had a very long and surreal talk and it involved her helping me accept and understand that I'm constantly running in the negative, my body cannot keep up with physical exertion for any period of time anymore.  Hell just going to an outing and riding in my power wheelchair physically drains me.  No one and I mean no one is going to hire me to do 15 minutes worth of work, only to need to take a 20 to 25 minutes break after every 15 minutes.  Hell, just writing this makes my arms rubbery and I broke once already to rest my fingers, but I'm fucking verbose, even on page...jesus christ!

There is a real face behind the argument and very real problem of over extension of funds and I hope it can become resolved without the sacrifice of the poor and elderly in the process.
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 03:26:26 pm »

the ponzi scheme is true in that thats where it started.. but the actual 'fall' of that pyramid was the sept '08 wall street failure.. when that happened, every one including states (and some countries) lost everything..

for SS, the money is there and always has been.. the problem was we've borrowed against it by hoping we'd have the funds somewhere else when the time came to repay those 'loans'.. with the meltdown, everything was lost and right now the only 'account' that has money is SS... but we can't use it to sustain other programs like we have,current recipients and future recipients.. so the idea is to re-vamp SS so we can use it now for other purposes and still pay for current recipients.. and really, fuck the future people.. the pols will be long dead and gone so why do they care..

if anyone seriously wants 'reform' and there really is a SS crisis.. they have to start with current recipients.. anything less is just pandering to get votes and make believe..

(and I don't mean starting with Chuck.. I mean starting with Warren Buffet. He and anyone else of a certain income level, should not get any retirement benefits like SS/Medicare.. and in the case of McCain, and vets of that kind of wealth, they shouldn't get VA benefits either. It doesn't hurt those kinds of people to lose their benefits, even if they 'earned' them.. because they have 17 homes,45 cars and billions in the bank.. but it does hurt Chuck or even Howie to lost their benefits just to keep Buffet and McCain on the gov't teet)
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