Ethical Oil

[Howey]

Funny thing is it's money that killed previous attempts at extracting shale oil.

[lil mike]

Oh, ok.. since I don't have anything in the pipe I can't dislike another 'drill here, drill now' project?

yeah, I call bullshit on that. The fact that all we do is 'drill here,drill now' and it's all that we'll ever do is why there isn't anything on the horizon.  while other countries are moving right along with their plans.. like the dutch and wind

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/25/wind-power-to-make-up-half-of-danish-energy-use-in-2020/

but that's something you don't like.. nor do your counter parts since it doesn't equate to 'drill here, drill now'..but maybe if enough people say no to more drilling, then we will start using some of these 'European' concepts.. altho as long as we have rear thinking oil-junkies around and in charge, I doubt it... I mean, the euro's(not the money) only have wallpaper that is 3 times as old as we've been a country.. but ya know their 'foreign' and all..

what is it about the right that they can't just progress...

We've done other things.  The administration loaned half a billion to Solyndra.  That's not chump change.  And that's just to one company. I'm sure there are plenty more Solyndras out there. 

As for wind, the Pickens plan has pretty much abandoned that part of the plan to concentrate on natural gas.  I'm sure there are probably real technical and economic reasons for this.

But you act as if the choice is between dirty oil and clean wind and solar.

It's not.

It's between oil from North America and oil from somewhere else.  At least until Solyndra starts turning a profit.

[lil mike]

The scam of washing oil out of sand has been tried for over a hundred years and failed every time. The only thing it's accomplished is lots of wasted water and millions of acres of destroyed land.

Time to try something new.

http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-shale-drilling-spurs-job-hopes-rust-belt-181047095.html

Ohio shale drilling spurs job hopes in Rust Belt

A rare sight in hard-luck Youngstown, a new industrial plant, has generated hope that a surge in oil and natural gas drilling across a multistate region might jump-start a revival in Rust Belt manufacturing.
The $650 million V&M Star mill, located along a desolate stretch that once was a showcase for American industry, is to open by year's end and produce seamless steel pipes for tapping shale formations.
It will mean 350 new jobs in Youngstown, a northeast Ohio city that is struggling with 11 percent unemployment.

V&M Star's parent company Vallourec, based in Boulogne-Billancourt, France, hopes increased interest in shale formations will produce a ready-made market.

Vast stores of natural gas in the Marcellus and Utica shale formations have set off a rush to grab leases and secure permits to drill. Industry estimates show the Marcellus boom could offer robust job numbers for 50 years.
Similar hopes are alive in Lorain, Ohio, where U.S. Steel will add 100 jobs with a $100 million upgrade of a plant that makes seamless pipe for the construction, oil-gas exploration and production industries. Erin DiPietro, a company spokeswoman in Pittsburgh, said the expansion will make the Lorain operation more competitive and help it tap into expanding shale developments.

The mayors of both Ohio cities see a chance to revive manufacturing through shale drilling.

[FooFa]

The NASA claim has been disproven time and time again.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/29/data-cooling-on-global-warming/

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/11/27/376197/media-flawed-study-climate-sensitivity/

I'd be interested to see an example of what you said. Even though the first is fox, I've found generally that their print is of a higher integrity. I think it's in the last 100 years that the temp is about 6 degrees celsius cooler.

[lil mike]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2011/12/08/us-shale-oil-seen-rising-fast

US shale oil seen rising fast

The boom in North American shale oil could expand even faster than forecast if the crude is produced responsibly, energy experts say.

The National Petroleum Council recently forecast that some 3 million barrels per day of shale oil could be produced in North America by 2035 if regulations were favorable to the industry.     

The shale oil surge in Bakken, North Dakota and other areas of the country are estimated to be about five years behind the natural gas shale boom. Rapid advancements in hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, and directional drilling have boosted output of both fuels.     

The surge could threaten Saudi Arabia’s dominant role in world oil markets, and it also eases the urgency to develop the kingdom’s own reserves, its state energy company said last month. 

[Howey]

if the crude is produced responsibly, energy experts say

Hahahahahhahha! Like that'll ever happen! Who are those energy experts so interested in producing crude responsibly? BP?

[lil mike]

http://www.freep.com/article/20111225/NEWS07/112250429/Shale-gas-puts-some-energy-independence-within-reach-for-U-S

Shale gas puts some energy independence within reach for U.S.

TOWANDA, Pa. -- Ever since Richard Nixon's 1973 promise to attain energy independence, successive U.S. presidents all have pledged the same goal -- even as foreign supplies composed a larger and larger share of the U.S. energy mix.

Now, almost 40 years later, a measure of independence is within reach. But as this booming town in northeastern Pennsylvania shows, the quest for independence involves both opportunities and trade-offs.

It may surprise many, but in less than a decade, the U.S. could pass its 1970s peak as an oil and natural gas producer. If that happens -- and many analysts think it's possible -- the U.S. would edge past Saudi Arabia and Russia to become the world's top energy producer

[ekg]

http://www.freep.com/article/20111225/NEWS07/112250429/Shale-gas-puts-some-energy-independence-within-reach-for-U-S

Shale gas puts some energy independence within reach for U.S.

TOWANDA, Pa. -- Ever since Richard Nixon's 1973 promise to attain energy independence, successive U.S. presidents all have pledged the same goal -- even as foreign supplies composed a larger and larger share of the U.S. energy mix.

Now, almost 40 years later, a measure of independence is within reach. But as this booming town in northeastern Pennsylvania shows, the quest for independence involves both opportunities and trade-offs.

It may surprise many, but in less than a decade, the U.S. could pass its 1970s peak as an oil and natural gas producer. If that happens -- and many analysts think it's possible -- the U.S. would edge past Saudi Arabia and Russia to become the world's top energy producer

it sounds great, but at what cost? fracking fucks up the water and this will eventually make areas unstable..and how is this renewable? isnt that the goal here?

I don't get this need of yours to destroy the earth and rape every last resource there is, while making the area inhabitable.. just exactly where do you think we are going to get fresh water when fracking poisons all the watte around the  Marcellus Shale? where do you plan on living after the grounds have been pillaged to the point where everything has been pushed to extinction and it's a barren wasteland ?

funny, you would be Commander Taylor's son Nathan.. only you're not selling the world away for spite and anger.. you're doing it for an ideology..

[ekg]

"Forty years from now we might look back and say, 'What the hell did we do?' Or maybe not. Life's a gamble," said Adam Dietz, who was interviewed in the town of Wyalusing as he oversaw operations at TransZ, a company that off-loads sand from railcars onto trucks for use in gas-well drilling.

sure, lets gamble.. I mean we can leave this rock if we do fuck it up.. right?

[ekg]

Mike, I don't know where you live.. but would you want them 'fracking' around your water source? do you trust it enough for your famliy to drink the water around the fracking areas?

and before you ask..... yes, I would like windmills out in the ocean within sight if need be, and I would put one in my ward as well..

[44nutman]

yes, I would like windmills out in the ocean within sight if need be, and I would put one in my ward as well..

If you do install a windmill in your yard, keep an eye out for this guy.

[Howey]

"Forty years from now we might look back and say, 'What the hell did we do?' Or maybe not. Life's a gamble," said Adam Dietz, who was interviewed in the town of Wyalusing as he oversaw operations at TransZ, a company that off-loads sand from railcars onto trucks for use in gas-well drilling.

"Forty years from now we might look back and say, 'What the hell did we do?' Or maybe not. Life's a gamble," said Adam Dietz Sr., who was interviewed in the town of Harrisburg, Pa (only 105 miles from his hometown of Wyalusing in the beautiful hills of Pennsylvania), as he oversaw operations at Three Mile Island.

[uselesslegs]

There's to much money at stake, to make any real shifts towards being serious about applying anything we currently have of an alternative nature towards lessening oil's interaction in our daily lives.  We're not at that point, technologically, where we can do any major turns...but we could be laying the serious ground work and moving in that direction...but again...it always comes back to money.

America, will be one of the last remaining hold outs and when transition is finally a necessity, it'll be ugly as hell.  Common sense isn't one of our strong suits and it's doubly hampered by the notion that the market place, at all times, dictates when we should make any sort of move.

Shale oil is just the same product, derived from a different source, that is also limited in its amount.  The same item, promising independence, with the clock ticking with a few extra minutes added. Genius!

[lil mike]

it sounds great, but at what cost? fracking fucks up the water and this will eventually make areas unstable..and how is this renewable? isnt that the goal here?

I don't get this need of yours to destroy the earth and rape every last resource there is, while making the area inhabitable.. just exactly where do you think we are going to get fresh water when fracking poisons all the watte around the  Marcellus Shale? where do you plan on living after the grounds have been pillaged to the point where everything has been pushed to extinction and it's a barren wasteland ?

funny, you would be Commander Taylor's son Nathan.. only you're not selling the world away for spite and anger.. you're doing it for an ideology..

Fracking does mess up ground water, but with hydrocarbons that are already there and at a depth way below the aquifer levels of well or drinking water.  So that doesn't effect what we drink.

Otherwise North Dakota and parts of Canada would already be dependent on imported drinking water.  That may be the case, but I have not heard of it.

I don't know what to think of a comparison to Taylor's kid.  On the one hand, he was a genius, but  on the other he was totally indifferent to other people.  Maybe the comparison is more apt than I know!

[FooFa]

Fracking does mess up ground water, but with hydrocarbons that are already there and at a depth way below the aquifer levels of well or drinking water.  So that doesn't effect what we drink.

Otherwise North Dakota and parts of Canada would already be dependent on imported drinking water.  That may be the case, but I have not heard of it.

I don't know what to think of a comparison to Taylor's kid.  On the one hand, he was a genius, but  on the other he was totally indifferent to other people.  Maybe the comparison is more apt than I know!

The documentary Gasland already proved that fracking is causing tap water in some cases to be combustible.