Poor true believer

[lil mike]

huh, and here I almost believed you that you didn't vote (R) just to vote (R)..

I kinda knew it when you voted for Scott.. The other candidates weren't that bad, but Scott is an out and out crook.. he literally stole from the gov't and got busted doing it.. and yet, you voted (R) anyway..

but now, huh,... you really would elect a Santorum or Gingrich...

why?  what has Obama done that's soooooooooooooooo horrible for you? He's been pretty damn awesome on nat'l security... just ask OBL, Awalki, those Somali pirates, Gaddafi, and those hostage takers..

TARP was GWB... sure he bailed out GM, but it's not like we haven't bailed out the auto industry before.. and had he not, at a time when we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.. it would have sucked..

DOMA has been repealed.., jobs are coming back, the economy is growing..he kept gitmo, kept wiretapping, stopped torture,increased pay and bennies to military families..

what has he done that has jaded you so? unless you truly buy into Fox and Coulter...?

Two reasons.

1)  Obamacare.  I think it's vital that it's repealed.  All of the Republican candidates have vowed to do that.

2)  Obama is totally clueless on the economy, doesn't believe that these record deficits will have any effect on the economy, and doesn't believe we are heading towards a Greece like show down.

He's doing to the economy what young Jimmy Kirk did to that car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRghYqi090&feature=related

[Howey]

Greece

You're an idiot.

[lil mike]

I've told you time and time again. It's not what he's done. It's what he is.

It's really quite simple...what better way to hide racism than to criticize every move the man makes? With lilMike's comment:

there's no doubt as to the why...

When it comes to counter arguments, you're pretty much bankrupt huh?

[Howey]

When it comes to counter arguments, you're pretty much bankrupt huh?

Says the guy who drug out Jimmy Kirk to prove a point. 

[lil mike]

Says the guy who drug out Jimmy Kirk to prove a point. 

I think it was a great point!


... and I really love that scene.

[ekg]

Two reasons.

1)  Obamacare.  I think it's vital that it's repealed.  All of the Republican candidates have vowed to do that.

thank you.. I wondered if your hatred of Obama was rational.. I really did. But this answer proves it's not and probably never was.. now we just have to figure out why you have an irrational hatred of him..color?party? something else?

oh, how do I come by that? simple.. you're so blinded that you've bought into the idea that  (R) candidate will repeal Obamacare..  Presidents  don't repeal anything, congress does.. and unless the GOP takes the senate in a 60+ majority, repeal isn't going to happen.. I would think you would know this.. but either you don't and never did.. or did once but are so blinded by the health care act taken from GOP talking points over the years passed by Obama that now you've forgotten.. I go with the latter only because it chaps your ass that he took your own party's ideas and dared to use them against  your party.. and then won! So now you're so delusional blinded that you think the (R) presidents can repeal a law at their leisure..

huh, so much for that whole 'I'm a libertarian, I believe in the words of the constitution" stuff huh..

2)  Obama is totally clueless on the economy, doesn't believe that these record deficits will have any effect on the economy, and doesn't believe we are heading towards a Greece like show down.

greece blah blah blah.,.. greece has nothing to do with us..we are not anything like each other.. this line of attack is dated and stupid.. you don't know what the hell you're talking about and are just babbling because you think you sound smart..

Greece doesn't have the ability to monetize their debt, we do.. they have to go thru the ECB, we don't.

our interest rate on 10 year bonds is 1.92 % still historically low..as opposed to Greece's 33.66 %

Greece's debt is 160% of the economy, ours is 75%..

we are a HUGE economy, Greece isn't.. we have a huge earning capacity because of that huge economy, greece? not so much, not to mention we have the dollar, the currency of the world that is managed by a single gov't.. Greece? nope..sot so much

the only comparison is that both went thru a bad time.. we are coming back, slowly... Greece? not so much.

we are simply not the same..we are in no danger of any default like Greece is.. you're comparing apples to oranges...

He's doing to the economy what young Jimmy Kirk did to that car.

even Romney admits the economy is getting better.. I know Laura Ingram didn't like that and tried to get him to say otherwise, but what can he do about it when it's the truth..

well, if he's you, he can continue to make stuff up.. which he has no bones about doing(and neither do you obviously), but on this he simply cant deny the facts..  now, are we at a level where everything is wonderful ? nope.. but we damn sure aren't where we were before Obama  was elected..   But more to the point, you wouldn't care either way, just like you believe the Presidential candidates who say they will repeal obamacare their 1st day in office, you believe anything you hear as long as it plays into your irrational hatred of Obama..That pretty much negates your opinion on any topic we may discuss on this board.. since your opinion is already set in stone and unlikely change even when given facts to prove otherwise...

what I want to know is this, you know we got here because of GWB.. how in the hell do you trust more GOP'ers to do anything different? When the GOP policies of Bush fucked us and the GOP wants to continue with those same policies.. how is the end-result any different than it was when Bush left office? isn't that the definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

well, I guess that answer the 1st question of the thread then doesn't it.

[lil mike]

thank you.. I wondered if your hatred of Obama was rational.. I really did. But this answer proves it's not and probably never was.. now we just have to figure out why you have an irrational hatred of him..color?party? something else?

Color?  Color?  Please, explain this in further detail. 

I don’t hate Obama.  I never have.  You can’t say the same.  You wrote some vile things about him a few years ago.  He seems like a likable guy and I’d like to have a beer with him, but that doesn’t mean I approve of his policies.  I think he is wrong on most things, but because you have to hate what you disagree with, you can’t comprehend that.  You assume I hate Obama because you hated Bush so much.  But don’t assume that we’re two sides of the same coin.  We’re not.  We’re not alike at all, but you keep assuming we are, so you can’t imagine someone being in political opposition to Obama and his policies without visceral hatred being attached.
Luckily, I’m not you.  I wouldn’t want to live that way.

oh, how do I come by that? simple.. you're so blinded that you've bought into the idea that  (R) candidate will repeal Obamacare..  Presidents  don't repeal anything, congress does.. and unless the GOP takes the senate in a 60+ majority, repeal isn't going to happen.. I would think you would know this.. but either you don't and never did.. or did once but are so blinded by the health care act taken from GOP talking points over the years passed by Obama that now you've forgotten.. I go with the latter only because it chaps your ass that he took your own party's ideas and dared to use them against  your party.. and then won! So now you're so delusional blinded that you think the (R) presidents can repeal a law at their leisure..

I think it’s a good possibility that the Senate will go 60 seats for Republicans; particularly if a Republican wins the White House.  If that doesn’t happen then it won’t matter much since even a bill to repeal Obamacare that landed on Obama’s desk will be vetoed immediately.  So yes, I think a Republican House and a Republican Senate would make as one its first orders of business to repeal Obamacare.  Now, if you don’t think that will happen even if Republicans take the White House and the Senate, than you’ve got nothing to worry about.

huh, so much for that whole 'I'm a libertarian, I believe in the words of the constitution" stuff huh..


greece blah blah blah.,.. greece has nothing to do with us..we are not anything like each other.. this line of attack is dated and stupid.. you don't know what the hell you're talking about and are just babbling because you think you sound smart..

Not just sound smart... I'm the real deal!

Greece doesn't have the ability to monetize their debt, we do.. they have to go thru the ECB, we don't.

our interest rate on 10 year bonds is 1.92 % still historically low..as opposed to Greece's 33.66 %

Greece's debt is 160% of the economy, ours is 75%..

we are a HUGE economy, Greece isn't.. we have a huge earning capacity because of that huge economy, greece? not so much, not to mention we have the dollar, the currency of the world that is managed by a single gov't.. Greece? nope..sot so much

the only comparison is that both went thru a bad time.. we are coming back, slowly... Greece? not so much.

we are simply not the same..we are in no danger of any default like Greece is.. you're comparing apples to oranges...

even Romney admits the economy is getting better.. I know Laura Ingram didn't like that and tried to get him to say otherwise, but what can he do about it when it's the truth..

Do you understand what to “monetize their debt” actually means?  Is that what you view as an advantage to dealing with the economy?  That’s allowing you to print lots of money and hyperinflate your currency to bring down the value of your debt.   That’s a bad option, although for Greece it would probably be a better bad option than their other bad options.

But they will eventually do that when they leave the Euro and go back to the drachma.

So is that how you view how our debt crisis should be handled?  Do you remember what inflation was like?

Anyway I’ve explained how I view our economic situation before and since you never understood it before, I’ll spare you a repeat (although maybe I’ll turn it into a blog…) and it’s probably a safe bet that you’ve never read any of the other posts I’ve written on the subject, but long story short, our long term debt situation is unsustainable, and it’s an economic truism that whatever can’t go on, won’t.  And it will probably be quick, just like the financial crisis.

However I don’t think it will happen while we are still the world’s reserve currency.  When we aren’t, well there’s your sign.  But by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.

well, if he's you, he can continue to make stuff up.. which he has no bones about doing(and neither do you obviously), but on this he simply cant deny the facts..  now, are we at a level where everything is wonderful ? nope.. but we damn sure aren't where we were before Obama  was elected..   But more to the point, you wouldn't care either way, just like you believe the Presidential candidates who say they will repeal obamacare their 1st day in office, you believe anything you hear as long as it plays into your irrational hatred of Obama..That pretty much negates your opinion on any topic we may discuss on this board.. since your opinion is already set in stone and unlikely change even when given facts to prove otherwise...

what I want to know is this, you know we got here because of GWB.. how in the hell do you trust more GOP'ers to do anything different? When the GOP policies of Bush fucked us and the GOP wants to continue with those same policies.. how is the end-result any different than it was when Bush left office? isn't that the definition of insanity? doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

well, I guess that answer the 1st question of the thread then doesn't it.

Well it’s true that my principles are set in stone.  One of the amusing things about Democratic governance is that I’ve been able to see that your principles are not.  I didn’t realize that until the dems came to power.  They bob and weave to political convenience. 

But I’m very curious about your theory that Bush caused our recession (and I suppose by extension the financial crisis).  I’m interested in your economic theory of Bush-o-nomics.  Please elaborate!

[Howey]

I remember when someone used to criticize me for supposedly supporting or not supporting someone based on a single issue - homosexuality. Today that person is doing the same thing I was accused of (wrongly, btw).

[lil mike]

I remember when someone used to criticize me for supposedly supporting or not supporting someone based on a single issue - homosexuality. Today that person is doing the same thing I was accused of (wrongly, btw).

Hmm I don't think that was me.

I was always amazed that you supported someone who opposed gay marriage on religious grounds but hated someone who felt each state should make that decision.

[Howey]

Hmm I don't think that was me.

Guilty conscience, huh? I'm more surprised that you're a "one issue" guy. But, then, you've said a lot in the past few months that is umm, unusual...

[ekg]

Color?  Color?  Please, explain this in further detail. 

nah, it's pretty easy to figure out on your own..

I don’t hate Obama.  I never have.  You can’t say the same.  You wrote some vile things about him a few years ago.  He seems like a likable guy and I’d like to have a beer with him, but that doesn’t mean I approve of his policies.  I think he is wrong on most things, but because you have to hate what you disagree with, you can’t comprehend that.  You assume I hate Obama because you hated Bush so much.  But don’t assume that we’re two sides of the same coin.  We’re not.  We’re not alike at all, but you keep assuming we are, so you can’t imagine someone being in political opposition to Obama and his policies without visceral hatred being attached.
Luckily, I’m not you.  I wouldn’t want to live that way.

oooooooooo you got me, I wrote some scathing things about Obama... and so I hated Bush.. and? Do you think that's an insult? Well sorry, I don't have a problem admitting it, unlike you, so it's cute watching you try and prove you don't hate Obama.. it's not working because it just seeps out of you, but you can keep trying. I like making you my monkey..

I think it’s a good possibility that the Senate will go 60 seats for Republicans; particularly if a Republican wins the White House.  If that doesn’t happen then it won’t matter much since even a bill to repeal Obamacare that landed on Obama’s desk will be vetoed immediately.  So yes, I think a Republican House and a Republican Senate would make as one its first orders of business to repeal Obamacare.  Now, if you don’t think that will happen even if Republicans take the White House and the Senate, than you’ve got nothing to worry about.

good luck with that... and no, I don't think it will happen at all.. even if the GOP takes the house, the senate and the white house..

Not just sound smart... I'm the real deal!

Do you understand what to “monetize their debt” actually means?  Is that what you view as an advantage to dealing with the economy?  That’s allowing you to print lots of money and hyperinflate your currency to bring down the value of your debt.   That’s a bad option, although for Greece it would probably be a better bad option than their other bad options.

Oh I know what it means.. and we don't have any 'hyperinflation' so obviously we can print some money and so other things that can prevent the hyperinflation until such a time as we can start cutting..oddly, you so want it to happen though so you can be right... because if it doesn't, and we recover... well Obama was right and you can't stand that.. imagine want your country and countrymen to fail painfully just to prove you ideology.. how do you live with yourself?

But they will eventually do that when they leave the Euro and go back to the drachma.

So is that how you view how our debt crisis should be handled?  Do you remember what inflation was like?

I've looked and I can't see where I gave any 'view' whatsoever.. my point, which was lost while you were trying to deflect away from the stupid 'Greece' comparison you made.. was that we are not anything like Greece, and I explained why.. so, to continue to compare us to Greece and their problems doesn't prove you're smart.. it just proves you can mimic Rush and Hannity..

btw, Greece 'austerity' didn't work, it made things worse.. so I guess I can say it wouldn't work here based on them huh..

Anyway I’ve explained how I view our economic situation before and since you never understood it before, I’ll spare you a repeat (although maybe I’ll turn it into a blog…) and it’s probably a safe bet that you’ve never read any of the other posts I’ve written on the subject, but long story short, our long term debt situation is unsustainable, and it’s an economic truism that whatever can’t go on, won’t.  And it will probably be quick, just like the financial crisis.

I know this.. and Obama knows this.. but we can afford to  keep priming the economy now, and when it gets back up off it's feet and employers are spending and consumers are spending, we can then address the long term debt problems... if no one else is spending, the gov't has to.. there is no other option... no other way to keep the country working.. and right now, with the recovery starting to work, spending freezes would kill that recovery and all your horror stories would come true.. again, I know that is what you want so that Obama can look bad and maybe you can get a GOP run country.. but what you refuse to see is that even with a GOP led country, we'd still be spending because it's the only option there is.. you and your party just want to hurt Obama, it's the stated goal..so really any opinions you or they have on this subject is tainted because of that statement.. you damn sure wouldn't be giving this 'smart advice' and 'dire warnings' if it would help him and the economy and we both know it..

However I don’t think it will happen while we are still the world’s reserve currency.  When we aren’t, well there’s your sign.  But by then, it will be too late to do anything about it.


Well it’s true that my principles are set in stone.  One of the amusing things about Democratic governance is that I’ve been able to see that your principles are not.  I didn’t realize that until the dems came to power.  They bob and weave to political convenience. 

blah blah blah..

But I’m very curious about your theory that Bush caused our recession (and I suppose by extension the financial crisis).  I’m interested in your economic theory of Bush-o-nomics.  Please elaborate!

what will you give me for it?

[lil mike]

Guilty conscience, huh? I'm more surprised that you're a "one issue" guy. But, then, you've said a lot in the past few months that is umm, unusual...

When it comes to saying things that are...ahem... unusual, I think you take the cake on that.

By the way, what is my one issue?

I don't even know!

[Howey]

By the way, what is my one issue?

I don't even know!

Anyone other than Obama. 

duh!

[lil mike]

duh!

That's an issue?

[lil mike]

nah, it's pretty easy to figure out on your own..

Indulge me.

oooooooooo you got me, I wrote some scathing things about Obama... and so I hated Bush.. and? Do you think that's an insult? Well sorry, I don't have a problem admitting it, unlike you, so it's cute watching you try and prove you don't hate Obama.. it's not working because it just seeps out of you, but you can keep trying. I like making you my monkey..

I’ve never had to “prove” I don’t hate Obama.  But your post pretty much confirms what I thought and what I told you in my last post:  You hated Bush and just cannot, CAN NOT conceive of me not hating Obama.  Of course you don’t have a problem admitting your hate, because you’ve expressed it on multiple occasions, but I don’t think you could say the same for me.  It’s not personal (how could it be?).  But for liberals, the personal is political.
It’s cute that you think I’m your monkey though!

good luck with that... and no, I don't think it will happen at all.. even if the GOP takes the house, the senate and the white house..

Sounds like the basis of another wager, although it just wouldn’t be right until you’ve paid up from the last one.
How’s that coming along by the way?

Oh I know what it means.. and we don't have any 'hyperinflation' so obviously we can print some money and so other things that can prevent the hyperinflation until such a time as we can start cutting..oddly, you so want it to happen though so you can be right... because if it doesn't, and we recover... well Obama was right and you can't stand that.. imagine want your country and countrymen to fail painfully just to prove you ideology.. how do you live with yourself?

Interestingly, that’s exactly how I feel about you guys!  How can you put the entire country at risk for your own short term political gain?  Fairly easily it seems.  I think I’ve already shown I was right about the stimulus, the recovery, and the recession.  I predicted back on the muche when we were arguing about the stimulus bill that with it our recovery will be slow and sluggish, just like Japan’s was, and for the same reasons.  I’ll be right about Obamacare too, if it stays and doesn’t get repealed.

Just as an aside, here is an interesting article this week by one of my favorite writers:

http://news.investors.com/Article.aspx?id=601602&ibdbot=1

with a chart!

I've looked and I can't see where I gave any 'view' whatsoever..

This isn't a view?

Greece doesn't have the ability to monetize their debt, we do.. they have to go thru the ECB, we don't.

our interest rate on 10 year bonds is 1.92 % still historically low..as opposed to Greece's 33.66 %

Greece's debt is 160% of the economy, ours is 75%..

we are a HUGE economy, Greece isn't.. we have a huge earning capacity because of that huge economy, greece? not so much, not to mention we have the dollar, the currency of the world that is managed by a single gov't.. Greece? nope..sot so much

the only comparison is that both went thru a bad time.. we are coming back, slowly... Greece? not so much.

my point, which was lost while you were trying to deflect away from the stupid 'Greece' comparison you made.. was that we are not anything like Greece, and I explained why.. so, to continue to compare us to Greece and their problems doesn't prove you're smart.. it just proves you can mimic Rush and Hannity..

btw, Greece 'austerity' didn't work, it made things worse.. so I guess I can say it wouldn't work here based on them huh..

This must be a new lefty talking point since I’ve encountered it on the other forum too; the idea that “austerity” is some sort of alternate economic theory to… what, opulence? Austerity is what you’re left with when you’ve run out of options.  Otherwise, why would anyone choose to give up their retire in their  50’s plans that the Greeks had to put it off for another decade?
The Greeks may think that they got austerity, but the Germans, who are footing the bill don’t.  What the Greeks did was too little too late.  But Greece is just the early warning sign.  It’s not the whole enchilada.  Most of the other countries in Europe are under the same stresses and the few that have not were smart and started reforming years ago.
That’s what I would like to do.  I would rather be a Germany or Sweden than a Greece or Spain.
You’re choice is clearly Greece and Spain.

I know this.. and Obama knows this.. but we can afford to  keep priming the economy now, and when it gets back up off it's feet and employers are spending and consumers are spending, we can then address the long term debt problems... if no one else is spending, the gov't has to.. there is no other option... no other way to keep the country working.. and right now, with the recovery starting to work, spending freezes would kill that recovery and all your horror stories would come true.. again, I know that is what you want so that Obama can look bad and maybe you can get a GOP run country.. but what you refuse to see is that even with a GOP led country, we'd still be spending because it's the only option there is.. you and your party just want to hurt Obama, it's the stated goal..so really any opinions you or they have on this subject is tainted because of that statement.. you damn sure wouldn't be giving this 'smart advice' and 'dire warnings' if it would help him and the economy and we both know it..

You do know that the “recovery” began in the summer of 2009 don’t you?  Just a reminder that I was right.  Sluggish recovery.  So you seem to simultaneously think that the economy is great, but if we don’t keep priming the pump it will collapse… so therefore, the economy isn’t great.
I suppose I’ll have to wait until Obama’s next term to find out what his secret deficit fighting plan is huh?

blah blah blah..

Best reply ever!  It’s basically you confirming what I already stated.  I have principles, you have a political party.

what will you give me for it?

Nothing of course.  I knew you didn’t really have a theory on how Bush caused the recession.  I was just smoking you out.