Welfare Queens

[Howey]

Along with teachers, firemen, policemen, disabled veterans, senior citizens, and countless other middle class groups being vilified by the right, the "welfare queen" was the first.

Haley Barbour, Republican Governor of Mississippi, told a story last week:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/03/haley_barbours_medicaid_fantas.html

"We have people pull up at the pharmacy window in a BMW and say they can't afford their co-payment."
--Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, Feb. 27, 2011

Haley Barbour's colorful remark, made to The Washington Post while attending a National Governors Association meeting in Washington this week, recalls Ronald Reagan's description of a "welfare queen" living high on government largess, driving a Cadillac. In Reagan's telling, she bilked the government out of $150,000, when the actual case involved $8,000.

The Mississippi Republican, who is mulling a presidential run in 2012, worked for Reagan as director of the White House Office of Political Affairs in 1985-1986. Could Barbour have picked up some tips from the Great Communicator? Reagan's anecdote ultimately was deemed exaggerated and aberrational, but it created a lasting image that fed popular distrust of the welfare system.

Let's see if there is any basis for Barbour's claim.

The Facts

Medicaid provides health coverage for about 53 million lower-income Americans and is a shared responsibility of the federal government and states. The federal government picks up, on average, about two-thirds of the costs and sets the minimum rules for which groups of people must be covered and what medical benefits must be included.

Governors of both parties say they cannot afford the current Medicaid system because of the fiscal difficulties stemming from the recession. It was in this context that Barbour made his comment. He is pleading for the federal government to allow states to have the flexibility to expand cost-sharing measures with Medicaid enrollees -- a point he also made in an appearance Tuesday before the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

"The problem is, federal regulations do not allow a provider to deny services to an individual on the basis of the individual's ability to pay. In addition, no cost-sharing measures can be imposed on many Medicaid enrollees, including children," Barbour told lawmakers.

Two days of inquiries to spokesmen for Barbour yielded no evidence or explanation for his statement, so we can't tell if his assertion about the BMW-driving patient is based on a documented study, an anecdote from a single pharmacist or a figment of Barbour's imagination. We presume we would have received an answer if there were something to back up the statement.

At the hearing, Rep. Janice D. Schakowsky (D-Ill.) asked Barbour about the BMW statement, but two witnesses said he did not provide an explanation. Unfortunately, there is no transcript yet available of the hearing.

Let's try a little bit of deductive reasoning.

Mississippi provides some of the lowest Medicaid benefits to working adults in the nation. A parent who isn't working can qualify only if annual family income is less than 24 percent of the poverty line. Working parents qualify only if they make no more than 44 percent of the federal poverty level. Seniors and people with disabilities are eligible with income at 80 percent of the poverty line. Pregnant women do better -- they're eligible with income up to 185 percent of the poverty level.

Translated from the federal poverty guidelines, that means a working Mississippi couple with one child could earn no more than $8,150 a year and still qualify for Medicaid, seniors and people with disabilities could earn no more than $8,700, and a pregnant woman could earn no more than $20,000 a year.

Meanwhile, the German-engineered BMW is a pretty fancy car. Edmunds.com says that new BMW car prices range from nearly $30,000 to more than $120,000. That seems out of the price range of someone making $8,000 a year.

Checking used BMWs worth less than $5,000 in Mississippi on Yahoo Used Cars finds 10 available within 300 miles of Jackson, the state capital -- but all carrying lots of miles. Four grand, for instance, would get you a 1996 BMW 328i with 237,000 miles on it. But even that, for many of Mississippi's Medicaid recipients, would be half a year's salary.

The Pinocchio Test

Given that you have to be rather poor to get on Medicaid in Mississippi, it seems highly unlikely the state has many Medicaid recipients driving around BMWs, even used ones. Note that Barbour said "we have people" -- suggesting this is not a rare event.

The failure of Barbour's aides to provide any documentation for this claim is rather suspicious. At least Reagan's anecdote was based on a real, though poorly remembered, newspaper article. We would welcome further explanation from Barbour, but until then this qualifies as a whopper.

What's my point? My point is easy to make:

Barbour lied. Barbour lied in front of the President and the governors of every state in the union.

Why do we allow this?

[betteroffhere]

why do we allow this ?

a. we/us/they can't prove he didn't see what he claims...

2. he didn't claim they owned the car or cars...he claimed they drove up in it to get their meds along with saying they couldn't afford the co pay

c. which if you are twisted enough...a person could imagine...he or an associate extend a generous favor to some people on the dole by letting them drive a bmw...to pick up their meds as a goof/favor/etc...a stretch of course but,possible...another angle...i'm doing ok...but my sister isn't doing so well,her boyfriend walked out on her leaving her with the kid...and she needs to get to the pharmacy today,so i let her use my car...it might be a bmw...

4. just two different ways to look at how it could happen

either way....its not that we allow it....it is business as usual

and we can't stop it...the only way of changing it is to embed youself into it and change it from the inside out...
but yet that is hardly even possible...without the right contacts or corporate backing...welcome to the carnival

[Howey]

Or he just plain flat out lied. 

[ekg]

it's the underlying theme of every single part of the party  of 'no'..

no because that lazy welfare queen may get something she doesn't deserve!
No, that union worker doesn't deserve something I can't have

forget that it benefits millions more than get it on the shady
forget that their packages increase yours


it's the way they have always been.. and the welfare queen is the cause of it all... starve the children, let the sick die, let the unemployed go homeless.. because we can't let that single black bitch in the BMW get medicaid to cover her heart pills..

and yet, let a Dem president ensure no one gets healthcare for free by enacting a mandate that makes everyone pay their fair share... and they go totally f'ing crazy..

HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[betteroffhere]

Or he just plain flat out lied. 

i d k...

but i know what i have seen in the hood...and it doesn't suprise me if its true...

i had a big ol long post about how getting a doctor to qualify you for disability and pain management

could make it possible to buy a bmw in under a year easily...but it was lost or stolen by the controllers of this here internet...when i clicked post....fuckers...

i'll copy and paste next time in notepad before i click post

[Howey]

i d k...

but i know what i have seen in the hood...and it doesn't suprise me if its true...

Maybe you checked the wrong place? Maybe that black woman in the hood could afford her BMW?

May I suggest you check the local white trash trailer park for the welfare queen Bimmers?

Majority of Welfare Recipients White

Despite prevailing stereotype, Whites, not Blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars

SAY the word "welfare" and immediately the image of the lazy Black welfare queen who breeds for profit surfaces in the minds of those who have come to believe the hideous stereotype. It is a myth that persists despite government figures and authoritative studies showing that Whites overwhelmingly reap the lion's share of the dole.

The image of the Black "welfare cheat," public aid advocates say, is based on misconceptions about poor minorities. The notion, they say, comes from society's resentment of seemingly ablebodied people getting paid for doing nothing.

"For some people, there is a need to believe that there are professional welfare recipients who are deliberately trying to get not only what they need to survive, but more," says Anne D. Hill, director of programs for the National Urban League. "People say to themselves: 'I work. How come this person who appears to be healthy isn't working?' We tend to equate our condition with others without fully knowing their circumstances."

[betteroffhere]

uh...

the hood is not a color...

and of course more whites are on the dole than others...but thats a numbers game

...idk about the proportions per each distinct ethnic group...and i don't why you

brought black and white into this...interesting

[FooFa]

and i don't why you

brought black and white into this...interesting

Every time someone mentions that there are different ethnicities doesn't preclude bias, prejudice or any other negative implication. If anything he was defending the stereotype against black people being all on the dole. There are a hugely disproportional amount of blacks in prison compared to whites. Just a fact, nothing more, nothing less

[betteroffhere]

and i don't why you

brought black and white into this...interesting

Every time someone mentions that there are different ethnicities doesn't preclude bias, prejudice or any other negative implication. If anything he was defending the stereotype against black people being all on the dole. There are a hugely disproportional amount of blacks in prison compared to whites. Just a fact, nothing more, nothing less

lol....very good...well done and said...except

why was there a need to defend the stereotype...?...who's stereotype...?

up until his post...no mention of race had been brought up...oh...yes...i may have slanted my post...

but that was to see if someone would bite...and...since there are only about four or five of us here...i thought

it wouldn't make the discussion...but...dangling carrots and all....

i know people draw conclusions...but i think it helps to learn why and how they get there...or

what triggers them to think what they concluded is acceptable and considered normal...

[ekg]

i'll copy and paste next time in notepad before i click post

I have been that for years..

but when my post are long... they are lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggg
and actually hurts to lose them

HA!

[lil mike]

Maybe you checked the wrong place? Maybe that black woman in the hood could afford her BMW?

May I suggest you check the local white trash trailer park for the welfare queen Bimmers?

Majority of Welfare Recipients White

Interesting.  That really doesn't have to do with anything Barbour said.

As to whether it's a lie or not. Im not sure what the basis of that is.  Are you saying that there has been some sort of investigation done, and they've investigated every Medicaid receipent in Missisippi?

Doubtful.

As to whether it's possible, I'd say it sure is.  I worked for the State of Florida for years, and I saw a lot of people on public assistance, and have interviewed a fair number of them.  And I saw the parking lot outside of our office.

So yes, it's plausable.  Keep in mind, that some people were doing well and fell onto hard times.  If they had a BMW before, they may still have it when they go to pick up their WIC checks or whatever.

Also, poor people have a large underground cash economy.  We had strippers on assistance who had tons of cash.

So lie?  Eh, I'll wait until the investigation of the entire medicaid population of MS is done.

[Howey]

Interesting.  That really doesn't have to do with anything Barbour said.

No. It had something to do with what boh said.

As to whether it's a lie or not. Im not sure what the basis of that is.  Are you saying that there has been some sort of investigation done, and they've investigated every Medicaid receipent in Missisippi?

So lie?  Eh, I'll wait until the investigation of the entire medicaid population of MS is done.

Did you miss this?

Two days of inquiries to spokesmen for Barbour yielded no evidence or explanation for his statement, so we can't tell if his assertion about the BMW-driving patient is based on a documented study, an anecdote from a single pharmacist or a figment of Barbour's imagination. We presume we would have received an answer if there were something to back up the statement.

At the hearing, Rep. Janice D. Schakowsky (D-Ill.) asked Barbour about the BMW statement, but two witnesses said he did not provide an explanation.

So he's either a. lying, b. telling the truth, or c. recycling an old Reagan fable for the masses to sop up. I'll take a. and c., Alex.

Barbour's quote was:

"We have people pull up at the pharmacy window in a BMW and say they can't afford their co-payment."

Fine. Given the regularity of pharmacies being robbed, wouldn't that pharmacy window have a camera? Wouldn't that camera be taking a picture of the welfare queen in her shiny new Bimmer while she's whining she can't afford her co-payment?

Wouldn't whomever passed this little gem of information along to Barbour (unless it was his speechwriter remembering the good ol' days when Barbour worked for Reagan) have had the tape of the welfare queen in her shiny new Bimmer whining she can't afford her co-payment?

Until then? Lie!

[lil mike]

I guess I really don't buy your definition of what a lie is.  To me, it's a deliberate factual mistatement.  There's nothing you've presented that corraborates that this was deliberate or not factual.  We just don't know where he got that story.  It's worth asking him about at every press conference but if he repeated the story because some aid told him it was true, does that make Barbour a liar.

So are you saying it's impossible to both have medicaid and have a BMW?

[Howey]

To me, it's a deliberate factual mistatement.

Please. Let's not do this over here, ok?

lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

So are you saying it's impossible to both have medicaid and have a BMW?

Of course not! BMW's have been around for years! Why can't someone poor save up their money and buy a used driver's car for a couple of grand and drive it?

[lil mike]

Please. Let's not do this over here, ok?

lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

Of course not! BMW's have been around for years! Why can't someone poor save up their money and buy a used driver's car for a couple of grand and drive it?

They can.  Which seems to make one of my points.  Thanks.