The Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011

[Howey]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20110302/pl_usnw/DC57915

NEW YORK, March 2, 2011 –

Over 80% of Public – Including Over 70% of Gun Owners – in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Ohio and Virginia Support Tougher Laws to Keep Guns Out of the Hands of Dangerous People

Legislation Introduced Today by Senator Chuck Schumer Would Get More Records Into Background Check System – and Require All Gun Buyers to Pass a Check

NEW YORK, March 2, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The bipartisan coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns today announced the results of state polls showing large majorities in five key states support closing loopholes in the national gun background check system that give dangerous people easy access to firearms. The polls – conducted in Arizona, Ohio, Colorado, Virginia and Indiana by Democratic and Republican polling firms – also show strong majority support among gun owners for tougher gun laws.

The surveys found broad support for provisions contained in the Fix Gun Checks Act of 2011, introduced today by Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY).  The legislation, modeled after a proposal offered by more than 550 mayors in the Mayors Against Illegal Guns coalition, creates stronger incentives for states to submit to the National Instant Background Check System (NICS) records on individuals who are prohibited from purchasing guns.  The bill also requires federal agencies to certify that they are sharing information about prohibited purchasers and requires all gun buyers to pass a background check, with narrow exemptions. 

Probably still not enough to keep guns out of crazy people's hands, and those of criminals, but a step in the right direction. Let's hope the Libertarians and NRA don't fuck this one up.

[FooFa]

I thought that the Brady Bill already covered this or was that specific to handguns only? I'm pretty sure there's no vetting procedure at pawn shops. Does anyone think legislation actually affects the still off the charts record of America and hand gun murders and accidents? It seems to me that the vast majority of criminals would not be following the law when they acquire their gun in the first place. One of my evolving beliefs and concerns is that communities are going to have to come together on matters of great significance and not rely on government for anything. The issue of state's rights vs Washington is on the rise. Did you know that the first president Bush signed an executive order which made the DOC into an entity that legally opened the door for example:Money put into a parking meter in Alabama could be going to Goldman Sachs in NY?
In 1992, George H.W. Bush signed Executive Order 12803, which gave D.C. the authority to sell America’s infrastructure. They called this authority “Infrastructure Privatization.” E.O. 12803 tells us this power cleared the way for the “disposition or transfer of an infrastructure “asset” such as by sale or by long-term lease from a State or local government to a private party.”
"What Obama is furthering began more than 17 years ago by George Herbert Walker Bush, and is working to a tee today by the present administration. This is why I try to show people that there are NO differences between the 2 main political parties! America has been sold out and there's nothing we can do except sit back and take it, or take it back from those who stole it from us!

The president now does not need any kind of an emergency to take or seize control of any of america's assets! This was proven when Hillary Clinton went to China and used american real estate as collatoral for China to absorb some more of america's debt! Tell me folks, what will we all do when and if China decides to foreclose on us and take our homes, land, and way of life? Don't say it can't be done, for our gov't has already mortgaged it long ago!"
 quote source

[ekg]

 quote source

hmmm I don't think 'quoting source' means what it thinks you mean.. LOL

see, using a conspiracy website, that uses a conspiracy blog as  the 'source' issssnnn't really the same as say wiki or yahoo answers...and those are two bottom 'acceptable in a pinch' sites..

what you did is the equivalent of me making something up in a blog, then posting about it on here, and using my blog as the source of my info... 

but you're learning..   now if you would learn to put conspiracy in the conspiracy thread.. maybe we will make you a whole section under your other section.. I don't mind reading a good conspiracy here and there, but just not everywhere

to the 1st part of your post

I thought that the Brady Bill already covered this or was that specific to handguns only? I'm pretty sure there's no vetting procedure at pawn shops. Does anyone think legislation actually affects the still off the charts record of America and hand gun murders and accidents? It seems to me that the vast majority of criminals would not be following the law when they acquire their gun in the first place. One of my evolving beliefs and concerns is that communities are going to have to come together on matters of great significance and not rely on government for anything.

Until we can stop the gun show loop holes it's not going to make much difference..

as for pawn shops, this I know from personal experience.. some make you get a background check to pawn/sell.. others make you get one to buy/redeem pawn.. meaning, even if it's your gun that you pawn 10 days before, they still have to run a background check on you.. now this is a speedy one that they just run your name thru some system, I don't know what it involves.. and I don't know what the 'handgun' sale is like but I would assume it's the same only with a 3-5 day wait..

I go back and forth on this issue.. sometimes I think if we all had guns  there wouldn't be any problems.. but then I remember 1/2 of us are fools and idiots so that idea is out. I'm against banning them, because I enjoy them number one, and I don't want to be without when the revolution starts (Ha).. so that idea is out.. and any law makes it harder for me to get one but not harder for crazy bob and gangster Too-Tall... so what do we do?

in the case of children/accidental shooting.. gun saftey should be taught in school at an early age. It's a fact of life that we have to deal with, like teen-driving.. so let's teach the kids..

I know liberals will balk at this but look, conservatives balk at anything but abstinence being taught to our children while we beat our heads against the wall saying "You have to teach safe sex because they are doing it anyway"... well, it's time to put our money where our mouth is because this is the same thing, we have to teach safe gun ownership because they are doing it anyway..

as for the rest of the problems.. I simply can't see a fix..

[Howey]

I know liberals will balk at this

This is the one thing you and I will always disagree on. There is no need for guns, guns, guns!

There is no thing as a "responsible gun owner". That's a myth.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldstarhiphop.com%2Fvideos%2Fvideo.php%3Fv%3DwshhJsS4366K48m3R73X&h=9d7ce



It took 200 years for this gun-crazy mentality to take over our nation - and trillions of NRA dollars. If it takes another 200 years for the removal of guns from our streets future generations will be in a better place. America's love affair with guns has gone on too damn long.

If guns were an effective deterrent, we wouldn't know what gun deaths were, would we?

[FooFa]

I was simply showing where the quote came from which I should have omitted in the first place. An executive order is not theory. It undermined the purpose of state's revenue going to the state infrastructure. How is this a theory? Clinton and Bush both, btw, frequently when answering a question would refer to thing's they said earlier as proof/their stance on something which I realize is bogus. I found the EO on a fed site but couldn't find the actual words of the order which lead me to the unimportant blog.

So be it if someone wants to make this into a separate thread but one dealing with the order and not a theory of any kind. I would also be interested in how those who were for Obama feel now. I foolishly believed everything he said about everything. Then after talking about not hiring former lobbyists it was the first thing he did and the list of his words prior to being elected and what he did afterwards which completely contradicted campaign speak is getting long.

[clc]

The debate has gone off in this house about guns. The Man wants one, and I wouldn't mind it, since I really enjoy shooting. I've pointed out the danger of keeping a loaded gun in the house, and he pointed out the retardedness of keeping the bullets 15 feet away from the weapon...which does seem pretty stupid if we're keeping it for protection purposes. The time needed to get the gun, unlock the bullets, and load the gun would render it totally ineffective against anyone dangerous, and would probably mean it would be used against us.

The compromise we settled on is an electronic finger-print safe, which would be locked to our fingerprints only. As far as I can tell, they are impossible to open unless someone cuts my finger off, and then we're already in trouble. The cost at this point is prohibitive.

I don't think the kids would be told if it was in the house, at least at the age they're at right now. Perhaps when we start hitting pre-teen age, some shooting lessons and safety talks would be necessary. But if they can't physically access the gun, I don't think they'd need to even know about its existence.

[betteroffhere]

i say guns for everyone...

should come with the chicken in each pot...

yes...there are crazy people out there...but the herd needs thinning

and if i'm to be one of those thinned out...eh...shit happens

but you know...a peoples without weaponary can't defend their world against those who have weapons

be it a gov...religion...or whatever oppressive ideaology

[ekg]

The debate has gone off in this house about guns. The Man wants one, and I wouldn't mind it, since I really enjoy shooting. I've pointed out the danger of keeping a loaded gun in the house, and he pointed out the retardedness of keeping the bullets 15 feet away from the weapon...which does seem pretty stupid if we're keeping it for protection purposes. The time needed to get the gun, unlock the bullets, and load the gun would render it totally ineffective against anyone dangerous, and would probably mean it would be used against us.

The compromise we settled on is an electronic finger-print safe, which would be locked to our fingerprints only. As far as I can tell, they are impossible to open unless someone cuts my finger off, and then we're already in trouble. The cost at this point is prohibitive.

I don't think the kids would be told if it was in the house, at least at the age they're at right now. Perhaps when we start hitting pre-teen age, some shooting lessons and safety talks would be necessary. But if they can't physically access the gun, I don't think they'd need to even know about its existence.

1st off, hello.

2ndly..  to the issue of kids.

I understand this rationale of yours.. I see/hear it all the time. Unfortunatly tho we forget that as kids we knew things about our parents that they had no idea we knew. we knew what o ur Christmas presents were (sometimes) because we found the hiding place for them one year on accident.. we knew that mom had black lacy panties and bras..we knew like to have some weird green weed in his drawer (what? was that only at my house HA!)... the point? we knew these things because as kids we were curious..

I was raised with guns. My g/father was a pro-shooter in the Marines so at a very early age, I was target shooting. I was never 'interested' in guns  like my friends were because they were a normal thing to me and not some great taboo.. At 13 a friend called me over to see what he found under his dad's side of the bed, it was a pistol. I was like "and.." but he was awed by it because he'd never seen one, much less held one..

and those are the youngest kids that are killed by accident.. who pull the gun to show the older brother and it goes off killing him, who bring the gun to school to show off because he's just found the ultimate of taboo's and who wouldn't show it just as they would show the orange and black snake they found in the garden..

ask yourself this, how many trailer trash redneck kids accidentally kill themselves or someone else each year? how many bring t he gun to school to show off?   whenever it happens you always here the parent say "But we had it in a safe"

Don't get me wrong, what you are thinking is the responsible, adult approach.. but sometimes the best approach is the 'redneck way'.. the less of a 'taboo' the gun is to your kids, the less likely they are to even really care about it.. Think about any new 'toy'.. the 1st few days they are crazy about it, but within a month it's setting in the bedroom corner forgotten because the novelty has worn off.. I don't know the ages of your children, but mine have been around guns since before they were in school.. and they really couldn't care less about them.. but most importantly, they understand  them and what they are capable of and know that they aren't toys to be played with or items to be used for 'show and tell'..

case in point, recently we had a scare with a crazy cousin of mine.. long story short, hubby went away for the weekend and I told him to leave the 'pump' shotgun for me.. he set it in the back of the living room, propped against the wall, in reach of anyone and everyone.. the only thing my kids (19 and 14) said was "God, we're soooo ghetto"...  but, if the crazy cousin made good with his threats, each of us knew how to handle the situation...

it had become a part of the furniture to them.. but a part that they are capable of using if the need ever arises..

anyway... I would encourage you to think about this side of it before feeling complacent because you have an expensive safe and you think you've hidden the knowledge of the gun from them...

and I welcome you to the site..

[ekg]

This is the one thing you and I will always disagree on. There is no need for guns, guns, guns!

There is no thing as a "responsible gun owner". That's a myth.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldstarhiphop.com%2Fvideos%2Fvideo.php%3Fv%3DwshhJsS4366K48m3R73X&h=9d7ce



It took 200 years for this gun-crazy mentality to take over our nation - and trillions of NRA dollars. If it takes another 200 years for the removal of guns from our streets future generations will be in a better place. America's love affair with guns has gone on too damn long.

If guns were an effective deterrent, we wouldn't know what gun deaths were, would we?

I know we disagree..  and that's fine.   The problem is, I like my guns.. it's not just about the safety part, I enjoy shooting!

But there needs to be an answer to this question.. I just don't know it

[Howey]

and those are the youngest kids that are killed by accident.. who pull the gun to show the older brother and it goes off killing him, who bring the gun to school to show off because he's just found the ultimate of taboo's and who wouldn't show it just as they would show the orange and black snake they found in the garden..

ask yourself this, how many trailer trash redneck kids accidentally kill themselves or someone else each year? how many bring t he gun to school to show off?   whenever it happens you always here the parent say "But we had it in a safe"

When children are involved, there is no such thing as a "responsible gun owner". Period.

I know we disagree..  and that's fine.   The problem is, I like my guns.. it's not just about the safety part, I enjoy shooting!

But there needs to be an answer to this question.. I just don't know it

The answer? Ban all guns now*. Hopefully, in a hundred years or so...if we haven't killed each other off playing wild wild west or the NRA doesn't run out of money...there will be no guns in the hands of those who shouldn't have them.



*Yeah. 2nd Amendment. Want a gun, Mr. 2nd Amendment Don't Tread on Me? Join the National Guard. TaDa! You're in the militia now!

[ekg]

When children are involved, there is no such thing as a "responsible gun owner". Period.

My family.. from my kids,me,my mom and her sisters and all their children are proof that there is such a thing tho..

and we're just one single family.. there are millions more out there and maybe what we did right should be listened to for change..*shrug*

The answer? Ban all guns now*. Hopefully, in a hundred years or so...if we haven't killed each other off playing wild wild west or the NRA doesn't run out of money...there will be no guns in the hands of those who shouldn't have them.



*Yeah. 2nd Amendment. Want a gun, Mr. 2nd Amendment Don't Tread on Me? Join the National Guard. TaDa! You're in the militia now!

I don't like the NRA... I really don't want anything to do with them. I guess they serve a purpose, or used to, but anymore they are just shills for political power..

and my opinion has nothing to do with the 2nd.. ok, well I guess it doesn because I would fight to the end if a 'ban' was instituted.. (imagine another GWB regime with no guns in the public's hands)  From my stand point(besides the enjoyment/safety factor) it's like abortion.. I'll never have one, but i damn well don't want anyone telling what I can and can't do with my body just because they don't approve..

same with guns.. sorry that you(not you, you.. a generally speaking you) don't approve, but don't infringe on me because you don't like it... is about as 'don't tread on me' as I get

[Howey]

My family.. from my kids,me,my mom and her sisters and all their children are proof that there is such a thing tho..

and we're just one single family.. there are millions more out there and maybe what we did right should be listened to for change..*shrug*

I'll bet ya every single parent of every single child killed by a gun accident in the home will claim that they "did right". Until the day their kid was killed.

sorry that you(not you, you.. a generally speaking you) don't approve, but don't infringe on me because you don't like it... is about as 'don't tread on me' as I get

And my opinion is about as radical as I can get. Which is why I'm open to compromise in the form of massive regulation: No automatics, no clips, no military weapons, extensive screening.

Hell. Just the situation with our guns (legally bought and owned guns) ending up in the hands of the Mexican drug lords (whose drugs end up where? Right back here...) is sickening.

[betteroffhere]

I'll bet ya every single parent of every single child killed by a gun accident in the home will claim that they "did right". Until the day their kid was killed.

like to see the stats...as to the ratio of guns in homes trailers condo's apartments...etc with children and deaths

related to guns...connected to the home with an historical timeline please...maybe an ethnic breakdown also...

lets be sure to leave room in the research to include unknown variables and any other intangibles so we can slant it whatever way... necessary to produce the numbers that will have the best impact on the issue too...

ain't enough of em dying so....off the table....on to the next item on the agenda


And my opinion is about as radical as I can get. Which is why I'm open to compromise in the form of massive regulation: No automatics, no clips, no military weapons, extensive screening.

stripping the citizen of the right to defend themselves with equal force from an outside source violating ones constitutional rights...that's something for sure...but you just take that position to ensure you have room to adjust during bargining...built in...i'm explaining to my daughter how that works in business...needed but deceitful...


Hell. Just the situation with our guns (legally bought and owned guns) ending up in the hands of the Mexican drug lords (whose drugs end up where? Right back here...) is sickening.

some call it business as usual...so...it is commerce...which happens be it lawful or un...be it from the inside or outsiders

once you get past that...like anything else...its how can we/they/us/them use it as a tool...

i ain't fraid of no gho....gun

[ekg]

I'll bet ya every single parent of every single child killed by a gun accident in the home will claim that they "did right". Until the day their kid was killed.

ahh but see, I addressed that.. I don't think the parents saying that are the ones I'm holding up as examples.. the ones saying that are the ones who thought they 'did right' by locking the gun away because they thought they had done right by not telling the child about it in the 1st place.. 

back in the old west, did we have accident shootings? where kids accidentally brought a gun to school and it went off? Or did we have a friends doing a show and tell of what he found in dad's dresser accidentally shooting his brother?  I know we can't know this, but I would venture a guess that 'no, we didn't' and why? because everyone was raised around them, they were comfortable with them, knew of their killing capability and most of all.. they weren't taboo novelties in kids eyes..

And my opinion is about as radical as I can get. Which is why I'm open to compromise in the form of massive regulation: No automatics, no clips, no military weapons, extensive screening.

I can meet you part way.. instead of "NO" just "licensed" 1st..  again, you're going to limit my ability to get these, not gangster Bill and crazy Bob..

Hell. Just the situation with our guns (legally bought and owned guns) ending up in the hands of the Mexican drug lords (whose drugs end up where? Right back here...) is sickening.

of course it is sickening, but to use the Mexicans.. aren't they beheading people at alarming rates also? should we ban our machete's because they might somehow get in the hands of Mexican drug lords?

I admit there are many problems.. but I can't see as how we've reach the right solution yet..

[Howey]

aren't they beheading people at alarming rates also?

Please tell me you didn't go there?