Citizen's ...PROPERTY Reform!

[lil mike]

Not technically a Scott thread, but it will be since he was the candidate who planned on reforming Citizen's United, and believe it or not, I think this is one of the biggest issues facing our state.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/23/bills-would-raise-property-insurance-rates-make-cl/

Bills would raise property insurance rates, make claims harder


TALLAHASSEE - It is a series of bills desperately needed to treat Florida's chronically ill property insurance market, the industry says. Or it is "some of the most anti-consumer legislation ever filed," a local state senator insists.

If it's a legislative session in Florida, lawmakers must be tinkering with homeowners' insurance, and this year is no different. Several major bills are now working their way through the process.

Homeowners can expect bitter medicine in another attempt at a cure: Higher rates, more difficulty filing claims, shorter claim windows, and restrictions on getting into – and staying in – the state-run Citizens insurance program.

The outcome? Hopefully, the calming of a market that even after five hurricane-free seasons, can't stop roiling.

[Howey]

Citizen's United?

Assuming you mean something else:

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/fasano-kriseman-outraged-over-bills-deregulate-insurance-industry

He and Rep. Rick Kriseman, D-St. Petersburg, spoke at a press conference of Policyholders of Florida, a new bipartisan group led by former Insurance Consumer Advocate and Tampa attorney Sean Shaw.

"There is nothing partisan about being repulsed by unregulated rate hikes and the raiding of consumer protections," Kriseman said.

Here are the five bills they deem "big insurance giveaways":
SB 1714/HB 1243, which allows Citizens Property Insurance Corp. to raise its rates as high as 25 percent annually.
SB 1462/HB 4115, which denies the insurance consumer advocate from giving grades to insurance companies.
SB 1330/HB 0885, which takes away the Office of Insurance Regulation's ability to approve rate hikes and allows companies to increase rates by 30 percent or less each year.
SB 408/HB 803, which strikes the requirement that companies provide sinkhole coverage, shortens the time period for claim filing and cuts up-front claims.
SB 1592/HB 1187, which limits a consumer's ability to sue his or her insurance company

Kriseman had particular disdain for SB 408, a copy of which he held up for news cameras, flanked by a rainbow of sticky notes. "In my five years of service in the Legislature, I can't recall a bill that was so obviously written by the industry and not by a legislative staff," Kriseman said, calling it the "holy grail" for the property insurance industry.

Sam Miller, executive vice president of the Florida Insurance Council, told reporters after the press conference that rate hikes are coming this year. "Rate increases are inevitable whether these bills pass or not," he said.

Miller said the industry needs to stop 99 percent of sinkhole claims that are fraudulent, as people use claims money to pay off their mortgages and purchase other items. He also mentioned that fraudulent hurricane claims are a huge problem for the industry. He also said the cost-driver package is supported by the Office of Insurance Regulation and CFO Jeff Atwater.

Shaw, who did not attend the conference because his plane was delayed, suggested that a more consumer-oriented approach to repairing the marketplace would be to define a sinkhole, thus knocking out hairline-crack claims that are fraudulent but keeping people with valid sinkhole claims. He understands there are problems in the industry, but this is a "drastic over-correction."

"To give them everything they ask for -- rate, and make it harder to sue em, and make it harder to file a claim, and shorten the time to make a claim, and we don't have to offer sinkhole coverage? Gosh."
The news conference took place right before the Senate Budget committee passed SB408, a sweeping property insurance reform bill which has just one more committee stop before it hits the Senate floor.

Fasano introduced multiple amendments to make the bill more friendly to consumers, and had success on two big ones. One would require insurers to get state approval for rate changes before implementing them. Another requires insurance companies to pay replacement costs of lost property instead of paying just actual value until provided proof of expenditures by claimants.

[Howey]

Huh... I had to come back and make sure I didn't quote the same source as Mike.

I have no problem with returning Citizen's to irs original purpose but let's examine the why's of  why it's more today than before.

Like the insurance company's outrageous rate hikes, refusing to insure people, pulling out of the market, etc...

The insurance companies are in this 'bind' thanks to their own greed.

*I hate to call any company that enjoys billions of dollars in profit in a 'bind'.

If I was able I'd find the link I read yesterday about the industry lobbyists that actually wrote these bills...

[lil mike]

Huh... I had to come back and make sure I didn't quote the same source as Mike.

I have no problem with returning Citizen's to irs original purpose but let's examine the why's of  why it's more today than before.

Like the insurance company's outrageous rate hikes, refusing to insure people, pulling out of the market, etc...

The insurance companies are in this 'bind' thanks to their own greed.

*I hate to call any company that enjoys billions of dollars in profit in a 'bind'.

If I was able I'd find the link I read yesterday about the industry lobbyists that actually wrote these bills...

Dang I must have Citizens United on the brain.  For that I blame Nutty.

No matter what path to reform they take, someone's going to be pissed.

[lil mike]

This is what I wanted to see.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203718504577178874259526882.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

It's behind a paywall but here it is.

Florida's Storm Shutters

Governor Rick Scott's push to reform Florida's taxpayer-backed catastrophic insurance funds is starting to get some wind at its back. The hurricane-prone state's taxpayers and what's left of its private insurers are on the hook if a big wind blows, and storm season rolls in again in June. Time to erect the fiscal shutters.

The most tangible progress is at Citizens Property Insurance Corp., a taxpayer-backed insurer of last resort that has become the state's largest property underwriter since the prior Charlie Crist administration deemed it so in 2007. In November, Governor Scott told Citizens chief Scott Wallace to reduce risk, and last month he delivered good news. Policies have stabilized at 1.5 million and the company is instituting reforms to reduce its $512 billion exposure.

As of February 1, Citizens stopped writing new coastal policies valued at more than $1 million, a reform that will mostly affect Florida's mansion owners and cut exposure by $17 billion over the next 12 to 16 months. In May, the insurer will introduce a mandatory 10% deductible for sinkholes when the ground collapses ($6.7 billion) and reduce personal liability coverage to $100,000 from $300,000 ($161 billion). Policy holders won't like the higher premiums, but Citizens has to price risk accurately in a state hit by seven of the 10 costliest storms in recorded history.

Citizens is also backing several GOP bills now moving through the legislature. Senator Garrett Richter and Representative Jim Boyd want to allow surplus-line insurers, niche players that aren't heavily regulated, to buy policies from Citizens, although policy holders would retain the right of veto. Senator Steve Oelrich and Representative Ben Albritton have bills pending that would change how and when Citizens could levy taxes to cover deficits, easing immediate burdens on private insurers and encouraging more to enter the state.

Not a moment too soon. Citizens's policies are limited to Florida, making it nearly impossible to spread the risk of a big storm, which could inflict $20 billion or more in damage. With its limited assets, Citizens would face a huge deficit if a big hurricane or a series of smaller storms make landfall, and insurers would be billed to make up the difference. Those costs would be passed along to taxpayers in Florida and, if the disaster were big enough, around the country.

Florida's public reinsurance fund, known as the Catastrophe Fund, also has problems, and here too Republicans have stepped up with good ideas. Senator J.D. Alexander and Representative Bill Hager want to shrink its size, bolster its capital base and reduce its ability to levy taxes to cover deficits. The main obstacle is Port Orange GOP Representative Dorothy Hukill, who chairs the Economic Affairs Committee and pulled the Hager bill from consideration last month, claiming the text "wasn't ready."

Much of the credit for the progress so far belongs to Governor Scott, who is risking short-term unpopularity to protect taxpayers from a future disaster. This is what political leaders are elected to do.

[ekg]

Lemme see if I have this straight?

25% yearly policy increases at the whim of the insurance company?
no sinkhole protection?
shorted time-frame to file a claim?
lower inability to sue the company who is screwing you?

all in an attempt to stop them from paying out too much of their 'bonus money' when a natural disaster happens.. under the guise of 'protecting the tax-payers' since it will be them who picks up the tab because by damn if the insurance company CEO's are going to give up their money..

here's a fix that doesn't fuck everyone in this state and doesn't seem so.... IDK, fascist.

why not make the insurance companies put 80% of what they take in (yearly) into a giant annuity that draws X amount of interest per year... and make that annuity safe from their greedy little hands so when a disaster does strike, the money is already in a fund waiting to be paid out.. if after 7-10 years nothing(catastrophic) has been paid, the interest on that fund can be divvied up between all the major contributors to the fund..and the 80% can drop to 75%..and the 7-10 year starts again...  the only time that goes back up to 80% is in the event that there isn't enough money in the fund to pay on a Katrina like disaster..

why is it some 'bad' 'evil' 'socialist' plan to make an insurance company do what you buy them to do? Isn't that what free-market and capitalism is all about? If we want a widget and we buy a widget, we should damn well get a widget... so why is it anything other than 'good business' to make them give us the damn widget that we paid them for.. is the gov't intervening and saying 'well, they don't have to give you that widget you paid for.. and you are still required to buy them from them at their cost, not market costs'  really what libertarians and conservatives mean when they wax poetically about the virtues of capitalism,market economy, and little gov't intervention?

If we just want to set up a system where we pay insurance carriers,be they home or health, ever increasing amounts of money, where they don't have pay out our claims and we can not file claims as they present, but our ability to force them to work within their guidelines by suing them is also removed.. then let's stop calling it 'insurance' and lets just call them "Mafia"**..  because anymore it seems people are simply wasting their money on a product that not only doesn't work, but it doesn't exist..



(**well, ok.. that's insulting the mafia since you pay them for protection and they actually give it to you... but you can see my point.)

[uselesslegs]

Lemme see if I have this straight?

25% yearly policy increases at the whim of the insurance company?
no sinkhole protection?
shorted time-frame to file a claim?
lower inability to sue the company who is screwing you?

all in an attempt to stop them from paying out too much of their 'bonus money' when a natural disaster happens.. under the guise of 'protecting the tax-payers' since it will be them who picks up the tab because by damn if the insurance company CEO's are going to give up their money..

here's a fix that doesn't fuck everyone in this state and doesn't seem so.... IDK, fascist.

why not make the insurance companies put 80% of what they take in (yearly) into a giant annuity that draws X amount of interest per year... and make that annuity safe from their greedy little hands so when a disaster does strike, the money is already in a fund waiting to be paid out.. if after 7-10 years nothing(catastrophic) has been paid, the interest on that fund can be divvied up between all the major contributors to the fund..and the 80% can drop to 75%..and the 7-10 year starts again...  the only time that goes back up to 80% is in the event that there isn't enough money in the fund to pay on a Katrina like disaster..

why is it some 'bad' 'evil' 'socialist' plan to make an insurance company do what you buy them to do? Isn't that what free-market and capitalism is all about? If we want a widget and we buy a widget, we should damn well get a widget... so why is it anything other than 'good business' to make them give us the damn widget that we paid them for.. is the gov't intervening and saying 'well, they don't have to give you that widget you paid for.. and you are still required to buy them from them at their cost, not market costs'  really what libertarians and conservatives mean when they wax poetically about the virtues of capitalism,market economy, and little gov't intervention?

If we just want to set up a system where we pay insurance carriers,be they home or health, ever increasing amounts of money, where they don't have pay out our claims and we can not file claims as they present, but our ability to force them to work within their guidelines by suing them is also removed.. then let's stop calling it 'insurance' and lets just call them "Mafia"**..  because anymore it seems people are simply wasting their money on a product that not only doesn't work, but it doesn't exist..



(**well, ok.. that's insulting the mafia since you pay them for protection and they actually give it to you... but you can see my point.)

Another Good'un.

[ekg]

Another Good'un.

HA!

[Howey]

(**well, ok.. that's insulting the mafia since you pay them for protection and they actually give it to you... but you can see my point.)

Yeah...it's more of that Florida-style Chicago-style politics going on over in Tally. Seems like the "appointed" goon is State Sen. Garrett Richter, who - not surprisingly, received lots of money from the insurance companies last election cycle and is a good buddy of Rick.

And, once again, it's Adam Fasano who gets fucked.


pdf of Fasano's letter: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/files/fasano-richter-letter.pdf

Funny thing is that the head of Citizens abruptly resigned in Jan. Hmmm....and did y'all know this?

Citizens Property Insurance Corp. Executive Director Scott Wallace was one of Florida's top-paid government employees last year and 48 other Citizens employees earned more than $100,000, a Sun-Sentinel analysis shows.

Like I said last year, I'm all for some restrictions but once again they're fucking the little guys.

[lil mike]

Lemme see if I have this straight?

25% yearly policy increases at the whim of the insurance company?
no sinkhole protection?
shorted time-frame to file a claim?
lower inability to sue the company who is screwing you?

all in an attempt to stop them from paying out too much of their 'bonus money' when a natural disaster happens.. under the guise of 'protecting the tax-payers' since it will be them who picks up the tab because by damn if the insurance company CEO's are going to give up their money..

here's a fix that doesn't fuck everyone in this state and doesn't seem so.... IDK, fascist.

why not make the insurance companies put 80% of what they take in (yearly) into a giant annuity that draws X amount of interest per year... and make that annuity safe from their greedy little hands so when a disaster does strike, the money is already in a fund waiting to be paid out.. if after 7-10 years nothing(catastrophic) has been paid, the interest on that fund can be divvied up between all the major contributors to the fund..and the 80% can drop to 75%..and the 7-10 year starts again...  the only time that goes back up to 80% is in the event that there isn't enough money in the fund to pay on a Katrina like disaster..

why is it some 'bad' 'evil' 'socialist' plan to make an insurance company do what you buy them to do? Isn't that what free-market and capitalism is all about? If we want a widget and we buy a widget, we should damn well get a widget... so why is it anything other than 'good business' to make them give us the damn widget that we paid them for.. is the gov't intervening and saying 'well, they don't have to give you that widget you paid for.. and you are still required to buy them from them at their cost, not market costs'  really what libertarians and conservatives mean when they wax poetically about the virtues of capitalism,market economy, and little gov't intervention?

If we just want to set up a system where we pay insurance carriers,be they home or health, ever increasing amounts of money, where they don't have pay out our claims and we can not file claims as they present, but our ability to force them to work within their guidelines by suing them is also removed.. then let's stop calling it 'insurance' and lets just call them "Mafia"**..  because anymore it seems people are simply wasting their money on a product that not only doesn't work, but it doesn't exist..



(**well, ok.. that's insulting the mafia since you pay them for protection and they actually give it to you... but you can see my point.)

Citizens Property is a state sponsored insurance company that is backed up by the taxpayers.  This isn't about Allstate trying to increase their bottom line, this is about a state sponsored entity being undercapitalized for the obligations it's taken on.  One good hurricane season and Florida's fiscal situation becomes similar to California's. 

For liberals, on the plus side having Citizen's collapse due to claims is a good way to finally get that state income tax you've been dreaming of.

[Howey]

Citizens Property is a state sponsored insurance company that is backed up by the taxpayers. 

Funny. I thought Citizens Property was established to cover all the homeowners dumped by the national insurance companies because they weren't making enough money off them. 

[ekg]

Citizens Property is a state sponsored insurance company that is backed up by the taxpayers.  This isn't about Allstate trying to increase their bottom line, this is about a state sponsored entity being undercapitalized for the obligations it's taken on.  One good hurricane season and Florida's fiscal situation becomes similar to California's. 

I know all of that.. and it doesn't negate anything I said..

For liberals, on the plus side having Citizen's collapse due to claims is a good way to finally get that state income tax you've been dreaming of.

I don't know a single liberal,dem, or progressive who wishes that.. I think you're just making it up.

[lil mike]

I know all of that.. and it doesn't negate anything I said..


I don't know a single liberal,dem, or progressive who wishes that.. I think you're just making it up.

Really?  When I used to listen to Phillips, he was in favor of a state income tax.  Admittedly that was many years ago.

Now as to your comment about Citizen's Property.   

Really?  I don't see how.  It's a non profit corporation established by the state government, so I'm not sure what the rant about free market capitalism is all about then.  This has nothing to do with either.  But in any case I get that you seem opposed to any reform of Citizen's Property.  Everything is just fine then?

[Howey]

Really?  When I used to listen to Phillips, he was in favor of a state income tax.  Admittedly that was many years ago.

Now as to your comment about Citizen's Property.   

Really?  I don't see how.  It's a non profit corporation established by the state government, so I'm not sure what the rant about free market capitalism is all about then.  This has nothing to do with either.  But in any case I get that you seem opposed to any reform of Citizen's Property.  Everything is just fine then?

Huh. I can't seem to get an answer to my question. Why don't you want to address it, mikie?

Funny. I thought Citizens Property was established to cover all the homeowners dumped by the national insurance companies because they weren't making enough money off them. 

If that is, in fact, the reason for the existence of Citizens, then perhaps it should go back to being what it should be instead of a State Farm wanna-be.

[Howey]

...so I'm not sure what the rant about free market capitalism is all about then.  This has nothing to do with either. 

This isn't about Allstate trying to increase their bottom line

Really?

The Senate will take up a bill that would allow unregulated surplus-lines insurers to take their policies out of Citizens Property Insurance. The proposal, which has already passed the House, is controversial because out-of-state insurers could raise their rates to any amount after taking over the Citizens’ policy. Sen. Mike Fasano, a vocal critic of Citizens, is planning to speak out against what he is calling the "vulture" bill.

Huh. Fasano again? Poor guys gonna end up in the bottom of the St. John's with concrete shoes if he doesn't stop going after the Scott Mafia. 

Meanwhile, I guess I was right. (Again!) The purpose and scope of Citizens sure has veered away from this under Republican leadership!

Funny. I thought Citizens Property was established to cover all the homeowners dumped by the national insurance companies because they weren't making enough money off them.