Since When Is Racism "Just a Joke"?

[ekg]

I'm not arguing that the picture isn't racist,

good, I'm glad to see you agree that the photo is racist..  that was all you needed to say instead of deflecting away from the racism, thus ignoring it and allowing it to continue. If only everyone would do this, things could possibly even out..

although I do enjoy the contrast of Presidential monkey pictures.  I guess that's a thing now huh?

wait, you just said it was racist.. so besides enjoying, you're now engaging in that contrast because you understand there really is a difference..

well technically you're playing the "well, you did it 1st" card like that's somehow a defense, but it does keep you from being nailed down to an actual answer doesn't it..

And of course I enjoy  the left's defense of Bush monkey pictures by saying, "well they're not racist."  No, they were insulting.  Just as the monkey picture of Obama is insulting.  It's not as if they are equally insulting, but I doubt the difference in offense is so great as you imagine it.  I don't defend any monkey pictures, but you will defend some of them.

never said the Bush photo wasn't insulting, I said it wasn't racist.. the Obama photo is insulting AND racist.. which you've agreed with..  and where have I defended any monkey picture -crowd-, explaining a difference in two objects isn't defending either one, it's explaining the difference in two objects..

But once again, you regard this email from some lowly official, not an elected official like Howey claimed, as a major news story, when it's really not.  You think it's significant because you think one email indicts the entire Republican party/the tea party, and roughly half the country because as I've come to realize, you really can't imagine a reason to oppose Obama without it being racist. 

I saw the story on Fox, cnn and msnbc.. I think that qualifies it as a major news story.. and I believe anyone can disagree with Obama on just the issues, but what I also know, which you ignore, is that there are many who disagree with solely on his skin color.. why bury your head? just admit it and maybe this country can get over it..

So of course it would be terrible to show Obama monkey pictures to his daughters.  Is that even a serious question?  Just as it would have been terrible to show Bush monkey pictures to his daughters at the age that Obama's daughters are now.

Don't you think both sets of daughters would be hurt by that?

that wasn't my question..
this was

If you showed the Bush photo to his daughters what would be their reaction and what impression would they get off it? Would their race enter into their heads?

if you took the Obama photo and showed it to his daughters.. what would their impression be? would you actually look at Obama's daughters and defend this photo as being acceptable and not racist in any way because it was done to GWB also?

and this was

wait, no....  could you even show it to them..  you would be a little embarrassed to show it to Bush's kids I'm sure, but  you could do it...  would you still just be a 'little embarrassed' to show it to Obama's kids though? or would you more likely be utterly horrified at the thought at being the one to show them?

and I'll add, if you would be more horrified at showing it to Obama's kids... why?

I also asked..

would it be acceptable to teach your own children how to take a class-photo and photo shop all the black kids as apes and then take it to school for show and tell?

and I'll add to that one.. if not acceptable, why?

yes it's serious..

now you can answer them....

[FooFa]

I used to wonder how the Bush twins felt about the cartoons. I've read that when John Jr was in college parties and what have you;if Sympathy for The Devil came on he would walk out of the room.
"Who killed the Kennedys..." The famous child of sorts, McCain's daughter, sounds very level headed when I've heard her speak.

[lil mike]

good, I'm glad to see you agree that the photo is racist..  that was all you needed to say instead of deflecting away from the racism, thus ignoring it and allowing it to continue. If only everyone would do this, things could possibly even out..

I wasn't deflecting away from the racism, but how could I not love they irony of two presidential monkey pictures?  For one President, you've probably posted several, and laughed and laughed!

For another, like Captain Renault, you are shocked, shocked...

wait, you just said it was racist.. so besides enjoying, you're now engaging in that contrast because you understand there really is a difference..

well technically you're playing the "well, you did it 1st" card like that's somehow a defense, but it does keep you from being nailed down to an actual answer doesn't it..

I am not, nor have I defended it.  I can see you want me too for some reason though.

never said the Bush photo wasn't insulting, I said it wasn't racist.. the Obama photo is insulting AND racist.. which you've agreed with..  and where have I defended any monkey picture -crowd-, explaining a difference in two objects isn't defending either one, it's explaining the difference in two objects..

So I'm agreeing  with you and you are still trying to look for some level of disagreement to fight over.  Trying to attach Crowd's "argument" won't help.  Frankly, I can barely follow what he's saying.  Must be all that Tiger blood of his.

I saw the story on Fox, cnn and msnbc.. I think that qualifies it as a major news story.. and I believe anyone can disagree with Obama on just the issues, but what I also know, which you ignore, is that there are many who disagree with solely on his skin color.. why bury your head? just admit it and maybe this country can get over it..

Fox?  Now it's my turn to be "shocked, shocked!"

Now explain to me why it's a big story.  Don't just dangle along at the media deciding for you.  Is a county* chairwoman or whatever she is such a big deal that monkey picture emails by her are national news?  If so, why?

That national networks cover the story holds no water with me.  You should know by now that I hold their ability to edit and determine what is and isn't an important story in low regard.  So explain why you think this is a national story?


* a county.

that wasn't my question..
this was

If you showed the Bush photo to his daughters what would be their reaction and what impression would they get off it? Would their race enter into their heads?

if you took the Obama photo and showed it to his daughters.. what would their impression be? would you actually look at Obama's daughters and defend this photo as being acceptable and not racist in any way because it was done to GWB also?

and this was

wait, no....  could you even show it to them..  you would be a little embarrassed to show it to Bush's kids I'm sure, but  you could do it...  would you still just be a 'little embarrassed' to show it to Obama's kids though? or would you more likely be utterly horrified at the thought at being the one to show them?

and I'll add, if you would be more horrified at showing it to Obama's kids... why?

I also asked..

would it be acceptable to teach your own children how to take a class-photo and photo shop all the black kids as apes and then take it to school for show and tell?

and I'll add to that one.. if not acceptable, why?

yes it's serious..

now you can answer them....

I'm curious what I said that made you think these questions had anything to do with what I said?

Nothing.  So you can see why I have a hard time thinking these are serious questions.  Think about what you are asking me.  Would I think it's OK to photoshop all the  black kids (I'm assuming you mean the same ones my kids go to school with), as fucking apes to take to school to show them?

What have I said that makes you think that's a legitimate, ore relevant question?  I mean really, where exactly is that coming from?

For the Bush/Obama kids question, you're assumption is that the kids being of about the same age, that it would be much worse for Obama's kids as preteens to have a picture of their father morphed as an ape shoved in their faces than it would be for Bush's kids to have the same thing pushed in their faces as preteens.  I think you're assuming that Obama's kids are fully informed on all of the history of racist monkeys.  I'm thinking  they just are not old enough, in their very privileged lives to have come across anything that would make them think "racism."  Of course that depends on how well Mom's greivance education is coming.  But I doubt it's something they have come across at Sidwell Friends.

[Howey]

So I'm agreeing  with you and you are still trying to look for some level of disagreement to fight over.  Trying to attach Crowd's "argument" won't help.  Frankly, I can barely follow what he's saying.  Must be all that Tiger blood of his.

Barely? Gotta give you credit for that. FaFa's being more coherent. 

Now explain to me why it's a big story.  Don't just dangle along at the media deciding for you.  Is a county* chairwoman or whatever she is such a big deal that monkey picture emails by her are national news?  If so, why?

Ya know...I was going to go back and change elected official to placate you like I did in the Huckabee thread...but wtf. You'd just find something else.

This woman is what? the Chairperson of the Republican Party in Orange County*, California. With a population of 3,026,786, it's not a little borough.

Orange County* is also the home of Tricky Dick, so you know there's a whole lot of credibility going on there. Republicans in the county* are an overwhelming majority so that's a whole hell of a lot of racist post cards and emails going out in the mail on party time.

So, yeah. It's a big deal.

[ekg]

I wasn't deflecting away from the racism, but how could I not love they irony of two presidential monkey pictures?  For one President, you've probably posted several, and laughed and laughed!

For another, like Captain Renault, you are shocked, shocked...

I don't find either 'funny'.. not my style.. but the shock came from the blatant racism in the one, and then people like you excusing it by using the other one as a shield..

I am not, nor have I defended it.  I can see you want me too for some reason though.

deflecting away from.. excusing.. ignoring..  using the 'you did it 1st' defense with the Bush/monkey photo.. all the same thing..

So I'm agreeing  with you and you are still trying to look for some level of disagreement to fight over.  Trying to attach Crowd's "argument" won't help.  Frankly, I can barely follow what he's saying.  Must be all that Tiger blood of his.

then you might try re-reading what you said to help you through this..

I don't defend any monkey pictures, but you will defend some of them.

I haven't defended any either.. I haven't used one to excuse the other either, like some people in this conversation have.. all I've done is explain the difference in the two.. you, like -crowd- , equate that explanation with a defense of.. uh, nope.. wrong.. not winning!

Fox?  Now it's my turn to be "shocked, shocked!"

Now explain to me why it's a big story.  Don't just dangle along at the media deciding for you.  Is a county* chairwoman or whatever she is such a big deal that monkey picture emails by her are national news?  If so, why?

That national networks cover the story holds no water with me.  You should know by now that I hold their ability to edit and determine what is and isn't an important story in low regard.  So explain why you think this is a national story?


* a county.

Because it seems to be becoming a running theme with your party.. watermelon patches, Michelle's ape ancestors,a collage of Presidents with Obama just being a black box with eyes,a email about a dog who is "black, unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and has no frigging clue who his Daddy is" seeking welfare benefits, or emails about "How can 2,000,000 blacks get into Washington, DC in 1 day in sub zero temps when 200,000 couldn't get out of New Orleans in 85 degree temps with four days notice?".. etc etc etc

not to mention the whole 'birther' issue.. that a great percentage of your party simply can't seem to let go of..

and this theme is playing out over and over and over again.. and yet, you bury your head instead of confronting it head on and helping to end it..

it's ok tho.. even the mighty McCain got tired of trying.. but atleast he did try that once, with that one old lady..

then hey, you're one guy.. what difference can you make?  Guess we'll never know will we..

I'm curious what I said that made you think these questions had anything to do with what I said?

Nothing.  So you can see why I have a hard time thinking these are serious questions.  Think about what you are asking me.  Would I think it's OK to photoshop all the  black kids (I'm assuming you mean the same ones my kids go to school with), as fucking apes to take to school to show them?

What have I said that makes you think that's a legitimate, ore relevant question?  I mean really, where exactly is that coming from?

For the Bush/Obama kids question, you're assumption is that the kids being of about the same age, that it would be much worse for Obama's kids as preteens to have a picture of their father morphed as an ape shoved in their faces than it would be for Bush's kids to have the same thing pushed in their faces as preteens.  I think you're assuming that Obama's kids are fully informed on all of the history of racist monkeys.  I'm thinking  they just are not old enough, in their very privileged lives to have come across anything that would make them think "racism."  Of course that depends on how well Mom's greivance education is coming.  But I doubt it's something they have come across at Sidwell Friends.

that.. uh

doesn't look like an answer to my questions.. that looks like a deflection, again.

see you're the one who used the 'shocked, shocked i tell ya' Bush monkey photo as an excuse to roll your eyes at any 'racism' charge given on the  Obama/monkey photo.. so that's why you're asked those questions.. to see if you could discern the difference in the two photos..

but hey, I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya that you dodged the questions again and instead, insulted Michelle and her mothering.. while being condescending about the girls 'privilege' and  education..

way to go skippy.

[uselesslegs]

Racism may be ages old, older than this country, older than recorded history...but we elevated it to an art form.

And while we spent countless generations developing and honing our particular unique interpretations, we made sure to never leave out the fundamentals.

Least of which is our ability to conveniently diminish our handy work when we need an equivalency that helps us ignore the canvas we've been painting on for hundreds of years.

 

[Howey]

haven't used one to excuse the other either, like some people in this conversation have..

HEY! You talkin' 'bout moi?

Let me tell you what I think...


Photoshopping Obama's face on an ape is an insult to blacks everywhere. Photoshopping Bush's face on an ape is an insult to apes everywhere.

[lil mike]

I don't find either 'funny'.. not my style.. but the shock came from the blatant racism in the one, and then people like you excusing it by using the other one as a shield..

It's not your style?  Are you telling me you never, not even once, posted a Bush-monkey image?

An again, I'm not excusing it.  You really really need me to for some reason though.

deflecting away from.. excusing.. ignoring..  using the 'you did it 1st' defense with the Bush/monkey photo.. all the same thing..

Wow, you really have a need to fight me on this for some reason.  Although you did do it first, I just pointed it out for the irony of it.  A point that I've already made.

then you might try re-reading what you said to help you through this..

I don't defend any monkey pictures, but you will defend some of them.

I haven't defended any either.. I haven't used one to excuse the other either, like some people in this conversation have.. all I've done is explain the difference in the two.. you, like -crowd- , equate that explanation with a defense of.. uh, nope.. wrong.. not winning!

Are you sure you have not defended Bush monkey pictures?  I mean, are you really sure?

I've not used one to excuse the other.  You keep insisting that I'm defending this woman's monkey picture.  Maybe I was tired when I wrote that, so please point out where I'm defending her monkey picture.

Because it seems to be becoming a running theme with your party.. watermelon patches, Michelle's ape ancestors,a collage of Presidents with Obama just being a black box with eyes,a email about a dog who is "black, unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and has no frigging clue who his Daddy is" seeking welfare benefits, or emails about "How can 2,000,000 blacks get into Washington, DC in 1 day in sub zero temps when 200,000 couldn't get out of New Orleans in 85 degree temps with four days notice?".. etc etc etc

not to mention the whole 'birther' issue.. that a great percentage of your party simply can't seem to let go of..

and this theme is playing out over and over and over again.. and yet, you bury your head instead of confronting it head on and helping to end it..

it's ok tho.. even the mighty McCain got tired of trying.. but atleast he did try that once, with that one old lady..

then hey, you're one guy.. what difference can you make?  Guess we'll never know will we..

Lord the irony!  From the party that defended a senator who was a grand whatever in the KKK. 

I could almost, almost see tolerating him since he has so much power, but it wasn't enough to tolerate, you guys protected and praised him.  His funeral was a revolting display of praise to someone who was truly a foul person.  You can't even now find someone in your party to apoligize for that.  We both know that for your party, racism isn't an evil, it's a tool.  That's why this thread was posted in the first place.

that.. uh

doesn't look like an answer to my questions.. that looks like a deflection, again.

see you're the one who used the 'shocked, shocked i tell ya' Bush monkey photo as an excuse to roll your eyes at any 'racism' charge given on the  Obama/monkey photo.. so that's why you're asked those questions.. to see if you could discern the difference in the two photos..

but hey, I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya that you dodged the questions again and instead, insulted Michelle and her mothering.. while being condescending about the girls 'privilege' and  education..

way to go skippy.

I don't think I insulted Michelle's mothering.  She is probably a good mom for all I know.  Rather I was insulting Michelle directly.  She gave herself away during the campaign, and although I applaud the administration for keeping her yap pretty well shut except for speaking about obesity and veterans issues (typical 1st lady causes), I know who she is.

I'm not trying to deflect from the questions, rather I answered them in ways that I thought actually applied to  the topic.  You seem to have an agenda with them, and since I don't know where you are going with this  I guess I won't give you the answers you are looking for because I don't know what you are looking for.  So I'll just say I've answered enough.

You've gone to a great deal of effort to fight about a subject that we are already about 98% in agreement.  But we disagree greatly on what I would consider far more important issues. Why are you more interested in monkey pictures than the very real differences between Republicans and Democrats on the 2012 budget, the debt ceiling, taxes, or the future of medicare?

[lil mike]

Let me tell you what I think...


Photoshopping Obama's face on an ape is an insult to blacks everywhere. Photoshopping Bush's face on an ape is an insult to apes everywhere.

Thanks!

[Howey]

Thanks!

If you'll notice, in the News header, I've apologized to the apes of the world for ever comparing them to Bush.

Lord the irony!  From the party that defended a senator who was a grand whatever in the KKK. 

You're defending this woman by comparing her to a bigot that was in the KKK decades ago?

Lord the irony!

How 'bout a reply to this?

Barely? Gotta give you credit for that. FaFa's being more coherent. 

Ya know...I was going to go back and change elected official to placate you like I did in the Huckabee thread...but wtf. You'd just find something else.

This woman is what? the Chairperson of the Republican Party in Orange County*, California. With a population of 3,026,786, it's not a little borough.

Orange County* is also the home of Tricky Dick, so you know there's a whole lot of credibility going on there. Republicans in the county* are an overwhelming majority so that's a whole hell of a lot of racist post cards and emails going out in the mail on party time.

So, yeah. It's a big deal.

[Howey]

Rather I was insulting Michelle directly.  She gave herself away during the campaign, and although I applaud the administration for keeping her yap pretty well shut except for speaking about obesity and veterans issues (typical 1st lady causes), I know who she is.

Aside from the obvious disrespect and hate for our First Lady, you have a knack for showing disrespect to women in general, ya know? Should Michelle just stay in the kitchen instead of speaking out about any issues? It's amazing that in this day and age you and the Republican party are soooo terrorized of women. Unless, of course, they're pretty and dumb like Sarah and Michelle. But they're both the Party's token female politicians, so what do you care?

And, really? Bringing up the "proud to be an American" thing again? Two and a half years later?

Just how many people, including yourself, have indicated they're not proud to be Americans lately in their words and actions?

[ekg]

So I'll just say I've answered enough.

that's no more than I expected.. we'll never get you down firmly on one side or the other will we...

Why are you more interested in monkey pictures than the very real differences between Republicans and Democrats on the 2012 budget, the debt ceiling, taxes, or the future of medicare?

cuz this topic wasn't about those things?

[Howey]

But we disagree greatly on what I would consider far more important issues. Why are you more interested in monkey pictures than the very real differences between Republicans and Democrats on the 2012 budget, the debt ceiling, taxes, or the future of medicare?

Aren't those issues being discussed elsewhere on here? Let's just leave this thread about Obama being a monkey born in Africa of a Socialist baboon and a Hawaiian whore who then proceeded to create with their infant son the ultimate plan to take over the world with a Marxist socialist society where everyone gets government freebies?

Meanwhile...why not quit the Kazz-bot routine with ekg and actually answer some of the questions others have posed here?

[lil mike]

If you'll notice, in the News header, I've apologized to the apes of the world for ever comparing them to Bush.

And again I say, thanks!

You're defending this woman by comparing her to a bigot that was in the KKK decades ago?

Nope.  I'm not defending her at all.  Great job mister stretchy-so-far-to-make-a-point-that-your-point-becomes-meaningless.

You and ekg really need me to defend her for some reason, and when I don't, it's like you just can't accept it.

How 'bout a reply to this?

Don't go changin', to try to please me.  I didn't want you to change the thread title, I wanted you to explain it.  Then you changed it.  And then I tried to get you to explain your change and you wouldn't explain that either.

I don't know what exactly you want me to reply to.  I've already said I thought a county chairman was kind of a low level and not really a national news story.  You do.  So what's there to reply to?

Otherwise a story about a fomer KKK and current Democrat in a Florida mayor's race would have been national news.

http://winterhaven.wtsp.com/news/news/former-kkk-leader-mayoral-candidate-speaks/49273

[lil mike]

Aside from the obvious disrespect and hate for our First Lady, you have a knack for showing disrespect to women in general, ya know? Should Michelle just stay in the kitchen instead of speaking out about any issues? It's amazing that in this day and age you and the Republican party are soooo terrorized of women. Unless, of course, they're pretty and dumb like Sarah and Michelle. But they're both the Party's token female politicians, so what do you care?

And, really? Bringing up the "proud to be an American" thing again? Two and a half years later?

Just how many people, including yourself, have indicated they're not proud to be Americans lately in their words and actions?

  I don't hate our First Lady although I don't like her or trust her.  So what?   Should I?  So how do you get disrespect for women in general from this?    I'm not keeping her "in the kitchen"  the White House is.  If you want her out and about more talking about national policy and current issues I'm not the guy to bitch too.

And yes I'm bringing up the "proud" comment.  Most people can say a lot of dumb things that don't really mean, but that comment sounded to me like she meant what she said.  And I think the Obama campaign and later the administration did too since she has been on mommy duty ever since.  Believe me, I anxiously await the day she's let out of cage the administration is keeping her in and she goes around the country talking about the issues.

Let Michelle be Michelle!

I am proud to be American, so I don't know what you're talking about.  Where have I indicated that I'm not proud to be an American?