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Howey
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« on: May 10, 2011, 06:09:37 pm » |
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I never heard of the term before. Until today. Apparently, the right wing Bush apologists are crying foul over the manner in which bin Laden was taken down, comparing waterboarding to being shot in the torso and then head. The tactic, known as "Double-Tapping", which is apparently a term to describe when someone is shot in the body to disable them, then shot in the head to kill them. The argument being made is this: "Why is double-tapping legal and waterboarding not?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7DZ_f_77us&feature=player_embedded(Corrected to prevent confusion) |
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 07:03:40 pm by Howey »
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clc
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2011, 06:28:10 pm » |
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The Double-Tap is a long-standing Zombie Defense Rule.
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betteroffhere
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2011, 06:30:37 pm » |
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i always get that one confused with double dipping...
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lil mike
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2011, 06:31:07 pm » |
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I never heard of the term before. Until today. Apparently, the right wing Bush apologists are crying foul over the manner in which bin Laden was taken down. "Double-Tapping", which is apparently a term to describe when someone is shot in the body to disable them, then shot in the head to kill them. The argument being made is this: "Why is double-tapping legal and waterboarding not?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7DZ_f_77us&feature=player_embeddedI'm curious where you heard that right wing Bush apologists were making the argument that, "Why is double-tapping legal and waterboarding not" since the term "double tap" is not in this video? |
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betteroffhere
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2011, 06:52:41 pm » |
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you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it eat the fruit along the way there....
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Howey
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 06:59:36 pm » |
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I'm curious where you heard that right wing Bush apologists were making the argument that, "Why is double-tapping legal and waterboarding not" since the term "double tap" is not in this video?
Hah! Thanks Shannon Burke and this guy! It's all because of this great interview that Chris Wallace did on Sunday on Fox News Sunday. He had one of the national security guys from the regime on there, and he really tripped the guy up. I had the sound bite yesterday and I just didn't get to it, but I can tell you what happened.
Chris Wallace basically said, "I don't understand something. You won't waterboard anybody -- it's inhumane and it's against American values -- but you've got no problem putting two bullet holes above Bin Laden's left eye."
"Well, that's right. We want to protect American values."
"So killing somebody who's unarmed in cold blood is fine, but waterboarding 'em, that's just American?" I think it would be safe to say that's what Wallace meant. But to prevent you from incessantly dwelling over one phrase... |
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betteroffhere
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2011, 07:12:08 pm » |
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the value of the crime is porpotional to the extent of the justice...not including any valuble information one might have...
that fall under another set of guidelines...old binnie was put to rest to insure no information was retrievable...
to prevent anything classified from being disclosed.
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shannonburke
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2011, 07:38:16 pm » |
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Yeah it's baffling to me. Liberals are cool with killing babies and unarmed terrorists in cold blood but a non lethal interrogation technique is "inconsistent with our values? Keep in mind I am completely cool with killing unarmed terrorists with a double tap. WATERBOARDING works, it's non lethal, doesn't even leave a bruise. But somehow it's too scary to do to a terrorist.
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betteroffhere
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2011, 07:43:51 pm » |
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Yeah it's baffling to me. Liberals are cool with killing babies and unarmed terrorists in cold blood but a non lethal interrogation technique is "inconsistent with our values? Keep in mind I am completely cool with killing unarmed terrorists with a double tap. WATERBOARDING works, it's non lethal, doesn't even leave a bruise. But somehow it's too scary to do to a terrorist.
it in and of itself may not be violently brutal...but...through a lil math in there and shit changes quickly... a couple waterboardings....fine... but day in and day out for several...weeks,months...would truly be torture |
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Howey
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2011, 08:22:52 pm » |
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Yeah it's baffling to me. Liberals are cool with killing babies and unarmed terrorists in cold blood but a non lethal interrogation technique is "inconsistent with our values? Keep in mind I am completely cool with killing unarmed terrorists with a double tap. WATERBOARDING works, it's non lethal, doesn't even leave a bruise. But somehow it's too scary to do to a terrorist.
The human mind is magnificent in all that it can do. It can also be a formidable weapon. Some who've faced torture of the senses would gladly face a quick gunshot to the torso followed by one to the head. Ask any of the thousands of our own suffering from PTSD. |
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ekg
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Yeah it's baffling to me. Liberals are cool with killing babies and unarmed terrorists in cold blood but a non lethal interrogation technique is "inconsistent with our values? Keep in mind I am completely cool with killing unarmed terrorists with a double tap. WATERBOARDING works, it's non lethal, doesn't even leave a bruise. But somehow it's too scary to do to a terrorist.
it's not baffling in the least.. |
Facts are the center. We don’t pretend that certain facts are in dispute to give the appearance of fairness to people who don’t believe them. Balance is irrelevant to me. It doesn’t have anything to do with truth, logic or reality. ~Charlie Skinner (the Newsroom)
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ekg
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BTW... let's be clear.
I"m good with giving the president whatever he needs at his disposal to get the information from someone in a ticking-bmb scenario... ya know, the 'jack bauer' scenario.. I see no problem with it. THE problem is, don't tell me it's raining when I'm watching you piss on my back. IOW, don't tell me that what you did wasn't torture when it is and has been up until you decided to use it and you waved your magic wand to make it legal for you to use. No, that doesn't work. Don't lie about it, stand up and back-up your actions, take a chance, tell the truth for once..
it's the lies that made the whole thing back-fire.. the Bush people could have used every reason for waterboading as a reason why they wanted to use it without lying about it not being torture in the 1st place, coming off the 'no wmd' lies, the country wasn't ready to let them be lied to again.. hence the push-back.
if you must do it to save lives, then you must be willing to take the heat for that action.. the lying about it and changing the definition, proved they knew what they did was wrong.
Oh yeah and this idea that waterboarding worked to get OBL is hilarious due the fact that...
1) the ppl they waterboarded lied about not knowing the name when they were asked about after being waterboardeed...that was how they knew they had a real name, the fact that KSM and Zubaydah lied about it.. isn't waterboarding supposed to make them tell the truth? ...ponderous..
2) if waterboarding was so successful, then why did it still take 9 years to get the guy.. Zubaydah was waterboarded in 2002,KSM was waterboarded in 2003, OBL killed in 2011.. uh yeah, I can see how that information was just sssssssssssooooooooooooooooooo helpful.
again, ponderous.
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Facts are the center. We don’t pretend that certain facts are in dispute to give the appearance of fairness to people who don’t believe them. Balance is irrelevant to me. It doesn’t have anything to do with truth, logic or reality. ~Charlie Skinner (the Newsroom)
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uselesslegs
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Let's make one thing perfectly clear, I have no doubt what so ever this is all politics. If the killing of OBL happened under Bush, we'd see the exact same argument...but in reverse. Liberals would be lamenting no extraction and wondering if the head shot was needed...and Repubs would be making the Liberals look like assholes for even questioning why we put a bullet in the skull of the person who masterminded the death of over 3,000 Americans on 9/11. It's a game based on ideological stance, not personal reflection.
Torture...the reason I view it as separate and apart from a mob hit...is what ole Shepard was screaming about above. We have them in custody. They're not going anywhere. Our treatment of them, on our dime, is entirely different than whacking someone on foreign soil...it's viewed differently. Maybe it's the most inane semantics, but it does very much reflect who and what we are on a different level. Well pull the trigger just like any other nation our there if you put yourself on our "you're fucked" list. But on our soil, in our custody, the barbarity stops. We're better than you, even if we act like you outside our borders...inside...our disgust is tempered with a higher and better concept and practice of justice and mercy.
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