Osama Bin Dead

[uselesslegs]

This is like the "rumors" that got actual and serious air time of Clinton whacking people mob style, magnified 100 fold, or the underground rumor that he was going to be the "last president" by declaring national marshal law and make himself king.  Every president has some weird bullshit thrown at them that takes a swipe, via pissed off other party rabble rousers who are happy to somehow de-legitimize a sitting POTUS they didn't vote for.  Party Politics run deep and strong with angst in a lot more people than we'd like to realize...thus crazy shit surfaces.

The crazy shit usually stays in the realm of the most die hard, with a little over flow to sometimes see the light of day in the mainstream...and there it flops around as long as the media, press, and most importantly...the average citizen decides to entertain it and bestow momentary or sustained credibility to it.  Kennedy being Catholic was a big brew ha-ha, "OMG, he'll take his orders from the Pope!" That one persisted throughout his short Presidency.  Find a President, and you'll find some attempt to scuttle them personally.  If there's a chick you don't like, it's quicker and more damaging to make her a whore, than it is to list the differences of opinion you have that may or may not be a point of contention with the people you're trying to turn against her as well. Don't rationalize...demoralize and cannibalize.  It usually helps if you can find some mutual ground to hate on, but it's not required.

Now we come fast forward to Obama...oh man...Katie bar the door.  If this were the Olympics of Character assassination, even calling a past president a hermaphrodite, doesn't hold a candle to the Gold's being handed out now.  Every past President should bow their head in shame for their weak showings...that shit was child's play compared to the jacked up, steroid riddled De-bashlon going on now.

Give me a day, a week, a speech, a personal quote, an action preformed, an inaction preformed, a triumph, a let down, and I'll give ya rumor...treated as news and entertained.  It's beautiful, it's maliciously overt.  Bush didn't have shit for character contempt compared to the A game being hauled out for Obama.  Keith Olbermann you say?  Bah, he merely assaulted Bush' intellect on policy choices.  His Gatling Gun of verbose repugnance were BB's aimed at calling out Bush' decisions and taking a poke at holding hands with a prince, wheeeeeeeeeee.  But Obama?  Oh man, he's a freak'in danger to the entire U.S. of A!  Because he's a socialist, marxist, communist, totalitarian dictator hell bent on...well...pick something.

Let me be clear.  I didn't care for Bush, because I didn't agree with quite a few of his policy choices.  I never thought that he was anything other than a man, who was President, who I didn't feel was appropriate for the office.  I never elevated him to a position of loathing, nor contempt.  He was my President, who I didn't agree with.  I never once was scared of him.  I know people disliked him.  I know people hated him.  I also know people held these feelings for him not because of his "questionable" religion, nor his "questionable" birth, nor his "questionable" allegiances.  Even his detractors would be the first to agree that he loved this country.  Maybe they questioned what that love entailed, but there was never a question as to his devotion.  Obama doesn't even get a pass on that.  "Everything" and I mean "Everything" is suspect.  The game is constantly being elevated.  It's going to go to far.

[FooFa]

I agree about not hating but if anyone comes close it would be directed at Kissinger for my part and not the orchestrated main stream thesis/antithesis, right/left which doesn't affect anything. I think it's highly unlikely that it happened when they say it did but I'm not really interested in taking it to the mat. I just wish it would result in a true withdrawal of NATO forces in the mid east which won't happen, which makes this effectively a muchado about nothing. I mean that in support of the troops as in they should be coming home and not to in any way disrespect what they do.

[lil mike]

So was I and didn't hear a word...

Even Rummy and Newsmax say waterboarding wasn't the answer.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/DonaldRumsfeld-gitmo-waterboarding-osamabinladen/2011/05/02/id/394820?s=al&promo_code=C30F-1

Wow, you really missed the point didn't you? 


Let me be more clear:  I found your mindset a bit repulsive.  The  first thing, the very first thing that occurs to you on hearing UBL is dead, is about attacking your political enemies, and to you they are not mere opponents, but enemies.  I've no doubt you find the Republican Party a far greater danger than Al Qaeda.

The post of mine that you swiped from the muche is a perfect example.  It was about congratulating the seriously difficult work that intelligence professionals did over a course of years, a crumb at a time, to put together the picture that lead us to where UBL was holed up.  And how did you read it?  A praise of Bushes interrogation policies.  I never said a word about that, but how could you not see it that way, considering how twisted your worldview is?

I've written plenty on Bushes policies in years past, so my feelings toward them are not exacty secret, but that sure had nothing to do with my post on the muche yesterday.  You sure managed to sour that.

And naturally enough, you were wrong with your ridiculous Kos post. The news accounts are fairly clear.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ikAZCh0ww4Y1tnn_VhV3j8H5GTEg

First strands on bin Laden gathered in CIA prison


WASHINGTON (AP) — Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

The news is sure to reignite debate over whether the now-closed interrogation and detention program was successful. Former president George W. Bush authorized the CIA to use the harshest interrogation tactics in U.S. history. President Barack Obama closed the prison system.



Fight the news all you want, but you are going to have to do better than that Kos blog.

But the in the meantime, you've once again revealed your true colors.  If I were you, I would do a better job of hiding those.  They're not pretty.

[lil mike]

uh, not so fast quick-draw



The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13512344


as for 'protecting Obama'.. check the post time... I posted at 7:44 this AM and you guys were already claiming GWB V-Day and that Obama had nothing to do with it.. that is, if he was even telling the truth. I was happy to make this an 'all American day' until your party decided once again, to shit on anything good this President tries and succeeds  in..


BTW, your suck up to Bush post on muche pretty much proved that this whole thing didn't mean anything other than another Bush blow job from you,.. so please, get off the horse already..

but hey, you did atleast give Obama some credit after all that smark.. so that's something..

Read the above response to Howey.  Unfortunately over time you are becoming more and more like him.  This thread and your posts is a prime example.  Sad to say.

I wasn't declaring GWB day.  If you read my posts on this I gave credit to Obama, and never mentioned Bush.  It's interesting that the first thing that you think about on hearing this news is Bush.  Like Howey, you seem to have read my muche post as a Bush praise post.  Man that's so absurd that it only shows the twisted hateful obsession you have for him.  So strong and overwhelming is the desire to delegitimize him is that the first thing you and Howey think about is: Bush.

It's weird and sad and weirdly sad. 

I am glad that I had the whole day yesterday at work to feel good about what happened before I got on the board and had it soured by you two.

(quick thought:  new name for this section: Bile.   It's not funny, just descriptive)

As for the article you posted, I'll be nice and give you a chance to discover what's wrong with your take on it.  I doubt you will though.  Your mind seems to far twisted by hate to read anything rationally.

[clc]

I have to side with Mike on this one (and I suspect this is happening more often than in the past). It did seem odd and bothering to me that both of you immediately jumped on the partisan wagon when this news came out. It seems like it should be an event that can cross party lines. You both know as well as I do if GWB had found this guy, you'd be finding some way to perhaps crap on it--if only because your dislike of the man runs too deep to be overcome with grudging praise. Mike's post didn't seem even grudgingly written.

I for one am proud Obama did it--I think it's a good example of the strong leadership potential I saw when I campaigned for him. It was awfully fucking presidential of him, wasn't it? I hope he brushed his shoulders off afterwards, because he deserves it. My personal reaction to the news of his death was quite different though.

[Howey]

I have to side with Mike on this one (and I suspect this is happening more often than in the past). It did seem odd and bothering to me that both of you immediately jumped on the partisan wagon when this news came out. It seems like it should be an event that can cross party lines. You both know as well as I do if GWB had found this guy, you'd be finding some way to perhaps crap on it--if only because your dislike of the man runs too deep to be overcome with grudging praise. Mike's post didn't seem even grudgingly written.

I for one am proud Obama did it--I think it's a good example of the strong leadership potential I saw when I campaigned for him. It was awfully fucking presidential of him, wasn't it? I hope he brushed his shoulders off afterwards, because he deserves it. My personal reaction to the news of his death was quite different though.

Remember the days after 9/11?

The entire nation rallied behind the president. Congress took on a decided bipartisan tone in support of the president's actions.

Nobody questioned him.

Can you honestly say that's happening now? No. The right wing extreme fringe has grown to such ridiculous levels there was no choice but to add a defense of Obama's action while praising him.

Mike's first post on the muche was so patently wrong, even if he did not name Bush directly, thenintent of his words were there.

Since then, he's been shown that Bush gave up on finding bin Laden, he's been shown that waterboarding was not the one thing that precipitated this action, and his obstinance refuses, as usual, to see what me, ekg, and Chuck are saying.

And...he's doing it in a manner that's insulting, not to me, but to the intent of this forum.

As he did with the muche in his one-handed death wish on the Politika section, Mike will attack, demean, insult and otherwise do everything possible to distract the conversation from the truth - that he can be wrong.

[clc]

I'll concede I don't think Mike defeats easily--he wouldn't be participating in a conversation that's stretched for over 10 years if he did. Neither you or Kelly admit defeat easily either. But I don't think he's being this deliberately malignant force that you're thinking he is.

[Howey]

I'll concede I don't think Mike defeats easily--he wouldn't be participating in a conversation that's stretched for over 10 years if he did. Neither you or Kelly admit defeat easily either. But I don't think he's being this deliberately malignant force that you're thinking he is.

I think if you were to check, ekg and I both admit to being wrong when we are.

One more thing...if this had been Bush taking down bin Laden, I would have been proud.

[lil mike]

Remember the days after 9/11?

The entire nation rallied behind the president. Congress took on a decided bipartisan tone in support of the president's actions.

Nobody questioned him.

Can you honestly say that's happening now? No. The right wing extreme fringe has grown to such ridiculous levels there was no choice but to add a defense of Obama's action while praising him.

Mike's first post on the muche was so patently wrong, even if he did not name Bush directly, thenintent of his words were there.

Since then, he's been shown that Bush gave up on finding bin Laden, he's been shown that waterboarding was not the one thing that precipitated this action, and his obstinance refuses, as usual, to see what me, ekg, and Chuck are saying.

And...he's doing it in a manner that's insulting, not to me, but to the intent of this forum.

As he did with the muche in his one-handed death wish on the Politika section, Mike will attack, demean, insult and otherwise do everything possible to distract the conversation from the truth - that he can be wrong.

What was "patently wrong" about my post on the muche?

If you feel you've been personally insulted, maybe you shouldn't participate in behavior that's foul and atrocious?  I have to tell you, what I saw here on this board yesterday was not at all what I expected, even from you (shame on me for being surprised).  And if you are proud and feel justified of your posts, then no attack or demeaning insult will effect that.

I thought you were trying to have a place for civil discourse here, but you've missed the mark at every opportunity.

[ekg]

Read the above response to Howey.  Unfortunately over time you are becoming more and more like him.  This thread and your posts is a prime example.  Sad to say.

you should unbury your head.. I had one post condemning the fringe.. the rest was nothing but the equivalent of a stadium chanting USA.  The condemnation is deserved since your side of the aisle can't  throw a 'good job' at this president without bring up Bush.. or 1000 other things.. there is always that BUT...

This was my 1st post on this subject at 745am

Congrats to Obama, the Joint Chiefs, JSOC, and the SEALS who put the final bullet in his head..

and yes finally, on the 8 year anniversary.... Mission Accomplished..

Well done !!


I've been looking all over the webs and it seems as tho Obama had nothing at all to with this, it was all GWB..  Roll Eyes  some on the Hannity forum feel Obama has so much in common with Osama that it's a wonder he ordered the hit at all.. then again, that was probably because he didn't want Osama stealing his US-sharia-institution glory.. Roll Eyes

it's beyond sad the extremes people will go to the dismiss this President. They can't even take this moment to rejoice as Americans..

to these scumbags I say, if Obama's to 'blame' for everything since he took office, then he gets the credit also..

Now the conspiracy of the body being buried at at sea will start and we'll have new 'deathers' any minute now..

My next post was at 5pm.. and by that time, GWB credit was all over the place... even Drudge was calling into question everything.. You saw Chuck's post, with his count of BUSH talk on the eve of the announcements..

so spare me this idea that I jumped on the partsian wagon immediately.. It was there, you guys pulled it out and had it waiting before I even had a chance to get to this board.. There were 7 page threads on the Hannity site blaming OBama and rejoicing GWB.. there wasn't anything I did to start it.. I said my peace about how shitty they were and then moved on to a pretty damn awesome *enhanced* quote I heard and some HRC speech praise..

that 5pm post, had a snark line in it and nothing but goosebumps and love in the reast..same with the next post on HRC's words, and the next post about releasing the photos, and my fake Obama calling Pakistan..

and yet you missed allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of that and came by to say

"Since the only topic you guys seem to be interested in is not "UBL is dead , yah!" but Obama needs more credit"

UH nope.. we were having many topics of conversation most of which were in praise of the killing, the actions taken, the speech given afterwards.. But you didn't want to get in on them, you wanted to start out punching at 'us all' because I said I didn't like what I saw on the Hannity boards and Chuck gave the Fox/GWB count.. and ignoring the meat of everything we had said..? sorry, you're not gonna get away with that here.

I wasn't declaring GWB day.  If you read my posts on this I gave credit to Obama, and never mentioned Bush.

really? I don't see anything about OBama at all.. Just Bush..

Indeed.  It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting with getting the courier's nickname through our interrogation of prisoners in 2004, to connecting that nickname to a real name in 2007, to finding the guy and tracking him down to that compound.  From there, discovering Bin Ladin's courier lives in a compound with no phone or internet?

And he was taken out just like I had hoped he would; shot in the head by SEALS.  Far better than merely dying of complications from diabetes or renal failure.  And he even revealed himself a coward at the end, using one of his own wives as a human shield.  It was all goddamn perfect!

It's really been a great day! 

No mention of OBama at all... just references to 2004(bush) and 2007(bush).. you did exactly what Palin did, thanked the Bush poliy, the Bush timeline and the mission without ever having to say Good Job to the current POTUS..

As for the article you posted, I'll be nice and give you a chance to discover what's wrong with your take on it.  I doubt you will though.  Your mind seems to far twisted by hate to read anything rationally.

nope, still not wrong..

White House deputy national security advisor John Brennan Tuesday knocked down the myth that waterboarding provided crucial intelligence that led to the location of Osama bin Laden.

“So we’ve been talking about the different details and methods that lead up to this moment, and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or role in actually getting the information,” MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski told Brennan. “Is that the case?”

“Not to my knowledge,” Brennan explained.

“The information that was acquired over the course of nine years or so came from many different sources, human sources, technical sources, as well as information that detainees provided, and it was something that as a result of the painstaking work that the analysts did, they pieced it all together that led us to the Abbottabad compound and led us to the successful operation on sunday,” he added.

but what is interesting is that you don't get where your piece is wrong.. see while it says that those interrogations were used, and it says KSM gave us the name.. it never directly says he gave us the name due to the torture.. it leaves the reader to jump to that conclusion if they so wish to.. which you do, you have a need to feel vindicated, which is why you posted that piece to begin with(again, please stop pretending you weren't making this political yourself).. the article I posted clarified yours.. yes, KSM talked.. yes KSM was tortured.. but he didn't give up that nickname under the torture, that, he gave under normal interrogation..

[ekg]

I have to side with Mike on this one (and I suspect this is happening more often than in the past). It did seem odd and bothering to me that both of you immediately jumped on the partisan wagon when this news came out. It seems like it should be an event that can cross party lines. You both know as well as I do if GWB had found this guy, you'd be finding some way to perhaps crap on it--if only because your dislike of the man runs too deep to be overcome with grudging praise. Mike's post didn't seem even grudgingly written.

I disagree..I have gone over my initial post on this, I didn't turn anything 'partisan' until after Mike's all-/inclusive comment..

my very 1st post on this subject expressed my disgust of those making it partsian..

Congrats to Obama, the Joint Chiefs, JSOC, and the SEALS who put the final bullet in his head..

and yes finally, on the 8 year anniversary.... Mission Accomplished..

Well done !!


I've been looking all over the webs and it seems as tho Obama had nothing at all to with this, it was all GWB..    some on the Hannity forum feel Obama has so much in common with Osama that it's a wonder he ordered the hit at all.. then again, that was probably because he didn't want Osama stealing his US-sharia-institution glory..

it's beyond sad the extremes people will go to the dismiss this President. They can't even take this moment to rejoice as Americans..

to these scumbags I say, if Obama's to 'blame' for everything since he took office, then he gets the credit also..

Now the conspiracy of the body being buried at at sea will start and we'll have new 'deathers' any minute now..

the 'deathers' was already a drudge-headline by the time I made that post at 745am..

I didn't say anything else until 5pm, and that was a pretty awesome, if I say so myself, enhanced quote I heard throughout the day..

you can almost feel the eyes rolling from the GOP can't you..

Look, I don't presume to give Obama all the credit since he didn't pull the trigger, but he did keep his word about going into Pakistan when he damn well felt like it if he found out OBL was there.. and it sounds as if while they were pretty sure it was OBL before they went, they weren't certain until they got there.. and that is pretty ballsy IMO.. 

But it also goes along with his entire presidency of higher  terrorists deaths..

so like him/love him/hate him just because.. he deserves his kudos in this..

I heard someone on some channel say this morning (not an exact quote) something along this of (with my own words added to his)

"I'm glad this wasn't a 'bombing' or a 'drone' attack, I'm glad that OBL got to hear the helicopters coming and got to know they were coming for him. I'm glad he got to hear and understand the automatic weapons fire was coming for him, I'm glad that he got to hear English being spoken by US Navy SEALS along with that gunfire. I'm glad he heard it,saw it and knew the US had finally caught him."

gave me goosebumps just typing it out...

true, I did make a single lined "You can hear their eyes rolling" comment.. but again, the other 99.9% of that post was nothing but good feelings on the subject..

my next posts were 100% in respect of the situation... not to do with politics..It wasn't until l after 2 of Mike's "It just seemed weird to me that protecting Obama was your first reaction.  I didn't mention Dubya, and if I didn't, no one on this board would" or "Since the only topic you guys seem to be interested in is not "UBL is dead , yah!" , that I decided he wanted to make it partsian, then fine.. we'd make it partsian..

[blindboytwitch]

Let's be honest, this was almost a gigantic cluster fuck like Iran or Somalia.  We even forgot to put gas in one of the choppers. (I hope I'm kidding about that but, seriously, didn't anybody give the thing a tune up before it went out on, like, their most important mission ever)? 

We got lucky and Obama's call on this was only indicative of someone who had paid attention.  Clinton bombed an asprin factory and GWB carpet bombed most of Afghanistan with the much vaunted "bunker busters" for months to no avail.  I do give him respect for making this a targeted assault as opposed to the usual high level waxing we give problems like this.  It's.... almost.... like... he... wants... to SOLVE... the probelm instead of fighting a fucking ground war against a decentralized enemy....  but, nah, we couldn't be learning from history could we?

I am not proud of this operation.  I am amazed that our usually thuddingly bad intelligence and often incompetent special forces were able to pull this out.

Good job, America. 

[44nutman]

[Howey]

Let's be honest, this was almost a gigantic cluster fuck like Iran or Somalia.  We even forgot to put gas in one of the choppers. (I hope I'm kidding about that but, seriously, didn't anybody give the thing a tune up before it went out on, like, their most important mission ever)? 

We got lucky and Obama's call on this was only indicative of someone who had paid attention.  Clinton bombed an asprin factory and GWB carpet bombed most of Afghanistan with the much vaunted "bunker busters" for months to no avail.  I do give him respect for making this a targeted assault as opposed to the usual high level waxing we give problems like this.  It's.... almost.... like... he... wants... to SOLVE... the probelm instead of fighting a fucking ground war against a decentralized enemy....  but, nah, we couldn't be learning from history could we?

I am not proud of this operation.  I am amazed that our usually thuddingly bad intelligence and often incompetent special forces were able to pull this out.

Good job, America. 

I respectfully disagree. This was a remarkably well-planned and executed foray. Hell, they even planned for a replacement helicopter if something went wrong!

The intelligence was meticulously pieced together, examined, verified as much as possible, and examined some more before the authorization was given.

Oh shit. Now you're going to piss off lilMike. Be prepared to be called names. 

[Howey]

btw...I wonder how long it's going to be before that's stolen and posted elsewhere?