I'm anxious to hear about those personal insults. Care to fill me in?
really?
you've been given your answer, you've been reminded of that answer, and you
still want to ask?
As for the private prisons, thats simple outsourcing. It's usually cheaper for a government entity to outsource services (some services) and put them up for competitive bidding rather than to provide them themselves. Say running Florida State prisons cost x for the State, and the State wants to outsource it to cut their costs. So therefore, they are not willing to pay more than y (a lessor amt than x). The put it up for bid and any company that bids an amount that equals or is less than y should be in the running. The goal is for the State to cut costs after all.
Is there something about this that isn't obvious to you? I didn't think this was the question because the answer seems kind of obvious, but apparently not. What is it that you find so confusing about this process?
you've been given the answer on this also.. once by Howie, once by me, and once by chuck..
there are simply things that should not have a 'profit' attached to them.. and prisons are one of them. They breed corruption and that kind of corruption has major consequences to the general public.
you've been given examples of that... this plan is simply not 'better' than then shit we have now.
when the profit margin depends on the amount of inmates one has in it's prison, what do you suggest happen to keep profit high each year? of course more lenient judges and laws doesn't fit into your business plan, low recidivism rates also aren't a good thing.. and hell, if you can set up harsh penalties for minor offenses while they're serving time, well that just keeps there on your book doesn't it?
You can't sit there and act like there would never be any corruption in this kind of scenario, but corporate corruption seems to be OK with you and other libertarians.. the utopian philosophy of the 'market sorting it out' is just too great to acknowledge as the fairy tale that it truly is...
this kind of 'for profit' system is not better... as for cheaper?
only if they 'pad their prisons'
Section 1 of this paper reviews the available literature concerning private prison
performance and cost data. Data from Colorado and across the nation show that the
performance of private prisons has been troubled—poor inmate programs, security problems, and fiscal woes have befallen all of the major private prison companies.
Studies private prisons’ fiscal performance have yet to show any conclusive cost savings
through contracting. Moreover, some states (including Colorado) tend to send “low
cost” inmates (i.e., those with no medical or disciplinary problems) to private facilities,
leaving the DOC with the most difficult prisoners thus distorting cost savings.
huh, corruption.. who would have seen that coming
When the Colorado DOC discusses privatization cost savings, it does so by making a
direct comparison between the cost of housing a medium security prisoner in a state
prison versus the legislatively-mandated price that the state pays private prisons. This
method of cost comparison is problematic since it fails to take into account administrative
overhead costs borne by the state. Section 2 examines the administrative costs that the
Colorado DOC absorbs for inmates in private facilities. Since these indirect (or
“hidden”) costs are not factored in to the cost per inmate per day for prisoners housed in
private prisons, the supposed cost savings may not exist.
But I'm sure this has bee remedied in the last 10 years?
or has it?
I certainly don't know, but it doesn't look like it..
Cost and Performance Data
Some supporters of private prisons are motivated by an ideological belief in privatization
in all areas of government. Other supporters are motivated by a genuine belief that
private contractors can do a better job than the state department of corrections (a claim
that has never been substantiated in research). Among policy makers, however, the most
frequently cited basis for prison privatization is the claim that contract correctional
facilities cost the public less money—that is the subject of this paper.
Perhaps the most comprehensive study of private prisons was published in 1998 to fulfill
a mandate from the U.S. Congress. Attorney General Janet Reno was required by federal
statute to conduct a study of issues and trends in the private correctional industry. The
report, Private Prisons in the United States: An Assessment of Current Practice, was
prepared by contractor Abt Associates. When addressing cost savings, Abt reviewed
available literature and concluded that the “survey of recent cost studies does not resolve
the question of whether privately-managed prisons are cheaper than publicly-managed
ones. The evidence is mixed, with the more detailed studies indicating the smallest cost
savings from privatization.”10
More recently, the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of
Justice Programs echoed this view, saying that “the cost benefits of privatization have not
materialized to the extent promised by the private sector. Although there are examples of
cost savings, there are other examples in which such benefits have not been realized.”11
so it's not just a 'colorado thing'..
A 2001 report from Policy Matters Ohio documented a long-standing practice by Ohio
prison administrators who manage contracts with private facilities. The practice is
known as “cherry picking” and involves “sending less expensive inmates to [private
facilities], artificially inflating reported cost savings.”12 The report produced evidence that
the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction intentionally placed inmates with no medical or disciplinary problems in private contract facilities
Like it's been said
There also exists anecdotal and published evidence pointing to inferior inmate services
and programs in private correctional facilities. From food service to medical care to
prisoner education to work programs, private facilities are inclined to cut program quality
and quantity in order to increase corporate profits. A 1999 report on programs in
Minnesota prisons found that although programs in state-run prisons were far from
perfect, they were of measurably higher quality and more accessible than those in
privately-run prisons.
and more..
http://www.ccjrc.org/pdf/CostDataReport2002.pdfthis is something we've known for 10 years.. why in the hell are we still doing it?
Putting aside the moral question of whether it is appropriate to delegate
government police powers to private entities, the free market argument is deeply flawed
from a purely economic standpoint since the marketplace for private prisons is both a
monopsony and an oligopoly. First, there is only one customer—the state—and even
though contract prisons are operated by private entities, the funding still comes entirely
from the public sector. Second, private prisons are highly regulated by the government—
a practice which has proven to be necessary to ensure public safety, but which is
antithetical to a free market. Finally, consider that there are only two major private
prison operators (CCA and Wackenhut), which together hold 77% of the private
corrections market, resulting in a thin market where states can become “captive to” their
own contractors due to limited competition within the industry.19 With these factors
taken into consideration, the allure of competition turns out to be a myth.
because ideologues can't distinguish between reality and their utopian dreams..
more..
Final Conclusion XII-38 (p. 567)
The publicly operated prison, Avoyelles Correctional
Center, out-performed the two private prisons on several
measures.
..
..
Final Conclusion XII-41 (P. 573)
Private prisons probably have a definite place in any
state’s total prison system. However, in the Louisiana
case, the private prisons outperformed the public prison
largely because of dynamic competition which existed
among the three prisons. No state should consider a
totally privately operated prison system, nor should any
state do business exclusively with only one vendor. To
do so would result in the loss of dynamic competition.
another
http://archive.epinet.org/real_media/010111/materials/TravisPratt.pdfThese conclusions have important implications for both correctional policy makers and
researchers.
First, this analysis provides policy makers with a more realistic and cautious
assessment of the relative efficiency (or lack thereof) of private prisons. Although specific
privatization policy alternatives may result in modest cost savings (e.g., private prison
construction and private contracts for specific services such as rehabilitation and medical
programs), relinquishing the responsibility of managing prisons to the private sphere is unlikely
to alleviate much of the financial burden on state correctional budgets and here's a question... atleast prison guards are DOJ employees.. so if they have to react harshly to an inmate, they are 'cop-like' so it's considered 'ok'.. because we hope that they have been screen and trained.. but what of the private prison workers? Those are just McD's employees with authority, is that really what we want?
not too mention
http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/17/news/economy/private_prisons_economic_impact.fortune/index.htmLaw enforcement locked out of prison?
Arizona Attorney General Goddard says that his state Department of Corrections has nearly zero oversight over the prisons that house out-of-state inmates in his state.
"
They don't have to show proof of financial responsibility, they don't have to comply with Arizona prison construction standards, they don't have to report disruptions. . .and both the training and staffing is up to the private operator," Goddard says.
"There were a couple of private prisons that went on lockdown and refused to allow the Department of Corrections to come in."
Despite claims from companies like CCA, the jury seems to be out on whether private prisons end up saving governments money. An audit by the accounting firm MAXIMUS conducted for Arizona compared the cost of public and private corrections facilities in 2007 and found that, on average, private facilities ended up saving the state $5.49 per inmate per day.
But more recently, an internal Arizona Department of Corrections report released in February 2010, found that, in 2009, those savings narrowed to around $2.75 per inmate per day, and in certain instances, private facilities were found to cost even more per day than public ones.
Nothing about this is better or cheaper.. but it's a whole hell of a lot worse that's for sure.
one thing is certain, after 10 years of studies.. there still isn't any proof that this option is cheaper for the state..
