Osama Bin Dead

[44nutman]

Oh shit. Now you're going to piss off lilMike. Be prepared to be called names. 

He should not be mad at me, but be mad at Daywalker who is the guy/girl (pretty much assume it is a dude with the handle of daywalker but being PC went with the he/she) that made the Mission Accomplished shoop.

[Howey]

I disagree..I have gone over my initial post on this, I didn't turn anything 'partisan' until after Mike's all-/inclusive comment..

my very 1st post on this subject expressed my disgust of those making it partsian..

the 'deathers' was already a drudge-headline by the time I made that post at 745am..

I didn't say anything else until 5pm, and that was a pretty awesome, if I say so myself, enhanced quote I heard throughout the day..



true, I did make a single lined "You can hear their eyes rolling" comment.. but again, the other 99.9% of that post was nothing but good feelings on the subject..

my next posts were 100% in respect of the situation... not to do with politics..It wasn't until l after 2 of Mike's "It just seemed weird to me that protecting Obama was your first reaction.  I didn't mention Dubya, and if I didn't, no one on this board would" or "Since the only topic you guys seem to be interested in is not "UBL is dead , yah!" , that I decided he wanted to make it partsian, then fine.. we'd make it partsian..

I'll admit my first post was partisan. It should have been because I knew what was coming from the right. And it's still continuing. Anything possible to discredit the President's historic accomplishment has been attempted, including the usual personal smears and lies.

Witness this:

Jesus...I should have known. Newsmax and Fox teaming up.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/US-Obama/2011/05/01/id/394737

I swear...they won't give him credit for anything!

Damn negro!

Newsmax and FOX were soooooo anxious to discredit the President they didn't even comprehend his statement:

And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.
 
"Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

By misinterpreting these concise words, the hatred began.

So yes, my posts are partisan. Always have been and always will. For every partisan post on the internet from people like me there's thousands attempting to discredit our president and his actions with lies and rumors.

I challenge anyone here to find one lie in this thread from me. Jokes? Sure. Sarcasm? Hell yes!

Mike has continued to well-honed agenda of someone elsewhere, who in an attempt to discredit my words, screamed YOU LIE! and resorted to name calling to discredit my words.

This is my forum. I envisioned this forum to be open game on any and all politicians as long as words are factually based.

In order to prevent this forum into turning into the miserable fuckfest that the muche turned into, the only stipulation I made was this:

As we're all aware, religion and politics bring out the passion of people discussing them. As a free nation, we're given the right to Free Speech by the Constitution. Free Speech, however, comes with it's limits. Let's try to be civil when discussing issues that we're passionate about. Avoid personal attacks. Let's try not to call each other stupid or ignorant or like terms that only degrade the discussion and bring it down to a personal level.

Mind you - this does not apply to persons who have, through their own choice, put themselves and their families in the political spotlight. By doing so, they are fair game.

Since we are a representative democracy here, infractions reported to the preceeding guidelines will be dealt with by myself, ekg, and lilMike. I, for one, do not believe in banning someone who occasionally crosses the line, yet constant and persistent trollish behavior will result in a suspension from the Town Hall for a period set by ekg.

Thank you and enjoy your stay!

Mike is the only person on here who persistently resorts to these antics. Yet, unlike what happened to me, he's not been banned and will never be banned. I don't work that way. As I've said before, you want to be banned go elsewhere.

Yet, I will not tolerate a continuance of this. (Collective) You want to discuss things civilly. Fine. Stay here. (Collective) You want to degrade your fellow posters with childish name calling?

Not on my forum.

[blindboytwitch]

I respectfully disagree. This was a remarkably well-planned and executed foray. Hell, they even planned for a replacement helicopter if something went wrong!

The intelligence was meticulously pieced together, examined, verified as much as possible, and examined some more before the authorization was given.

Planned for a backup chopper?  Redundancy of escape is not really super-warrior-brain thinking, it's kinda basic.  Still, I don't want to totally take away from it.  Things like this are hard-- and Power Team USA has a history of spectacular public failures...so we got that going for us.

The intelligence was indeed key.... it's just it's been so bad for so long and so wildly insensitive to what was actually happening in the region that this seems like an aberation in the face of a hundred WMD fallacies.  Again, I was amazed.

[Howey]

Another wise decision. The photos will not be released.

[FooFa]

Another wise decision. The photos will not be released.

[Howey]

Was I lying the right wing was more concerned about Obama's poll numbers than the death of bin Laden?

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201105020016

Is "Telling The Truth" About Bin Laden Or "Pulling A Fast One To Save Obama's Lousy Presidency"

Listen to the whole thing.

[ekg]

I know.. they're having apoplectic fits at Fox with this whole thing..  They're trying to find a way to blame him.. Beck even hinted last night that now that Obama killed Osama, we're going to be less safe so he (obama) has in fact, been a danger to this country and it's national security..  on top of being a Muslim,socialist and all of course.

he had his chalkboards in full force, but I couldn't watch it long enough to see how he drew it all together..

[FooFa]

So Beck is still on TV? I thought with his souless media whore side show he was finally even too much to be allowed on Murdoch's crusty old lap. I realize most here probably more monitor him than watch as uninformed idiots, his target audience. This question is directed to the ekg

[ekg]

So Beck is still on TV? I thought with his souless media whore side show he was finally even too much to be allowed on Murdoch's crusty old lap. I realize most here probably more monitor him than watch as uninformed idiots, his target audience. This question is directed to the ekg

I've tried in the past to watch him, since Stewart makes fun of him so much, I thought "Hey, let me see what he's doing tonight".. but I swear I could never get past minute 2... That was all I could take before it felt as if my head was going to come right off.. HA!

The same with Hannity..

But, when Olbermann took off there was a void in my life.. I like Matthews well enough to watch for about 50 mins, Lawrence O'Donnell is too bombastic to handle for more than 20-30 mins and Maddow too long winded most nights to get more than a good few minutes .. So I still needed to fill in some time until Anderson Cooper at 1am.  So I watch all 3 MSNBC people for a total of about 1hr 20 mins, and then watch Hannity, kinda, I fast forward thru a lot..a whole lot.. I can't watch his American Panel(or whatever) but the rest I can sometimes get a good 15 mins out of him now..  and then the Daily show and by that time it's AC360 time..

Hannity was an acquired taste.. it was like easing into a scalding tub of water, I had to do it a little at a time.. I'm probably at the level of my knee right now.. HA!

But not so for Beck... him? I just can't do.. it just so fake and phoney..it's a caricature, a distortion of.. well sanity, and yet, people believe it..

 With the exception of last night. For whatever reason I left it on Fox when he came on at 1am and he started in so I followed him for as long as I could.. which this time was a good 5-7 mins

[lil mike]

you should unbury your head.. I had one post condemning the fringe.. the rest was nothing but the equivalent of a stadium chanting USA.  The condemnation is deserved since your side of the aisle can't  throw a 'good job' at this president without bring up Bush.. or 1000 other things.. there is always that BUT...

This was my 1st post on this subject at 745am

My next post was at 5pm.. and by that time, GWB credit was all over the place... even Drudge was calling into question everything.. You saw Chuck's post, with his count of BUSH talk on the eve of the announcements..

so spare me this idea that I jumped on the partsian wagon immediately.. It was there, you guys pulled it out and had it waiting before I even had a chance to get to this board.. There were 7 page threads on the Hannity site blaming OBama and rejoicing GWB.. there wasn't anything I did to start it.. I said my peace about how shitty they were and then moved on to a pretty damn awesome *enhanced* quote I heard and some HRC speech praise..

that 5pm post, had a snark line in it and nothing but goosebumps and love in the reast..same with the next post on HRC's words, and the next post about releasing the photos, and my fake Obama calling Pakistan..

and yet you missed allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of that and came by to say

"Since the only topic you guys seem to be interested in is not "UBL is dead , yah!" but Obama needs more credit"

UH nope.. we were having many topics of conversation most of which were in praise of the killing, the actions taken, the speech given afterwards.. But you didn't want to get in on them, you wanted to start out punching at 'us all' because I said I didn't like what I saw on the Hannity boards and Chuck gave the Fox/GWB count.. and ignoring the meat of everything we had said..? sorry, you're not gonna get away with that here.

really? I don't see anything about OBama at all.. Just Bush..
 

No mention of OBama at all... just references to 2004(bush) and 2007(bush).. you did exactly what Palin did, thanked the Bush poliy, the Bush timeline and the mission without ever having to say Good Job to the current POTUS..


nope, still not wrong..
but what is interesting is that you don't get where your piece is wrong.. see while it says that those interrogations were used, and it says KSM gave us the name.. it never directly says he gave us the name due to the torture.. it leaves the reader to jump to that conclusion if they so wish to.. which you do, you have a need to feel vindicated, which is why you posted that piece to begin with(again, please stop pretending you weren't making this political yourself).. the article I posted clarified yours.. yes, KSM talked.. yes KSM was tortured.. but he didn't give up that nickname under the torture, that, he gave under normal interrogation..

Here is what's interesting to me, this was the post that you said was just references to Bush:

Indeed.  It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting with getting the courier's nickname through our interrogation of prisoners in 2004, to connecting that nickname to a real name in 2007, to finding the guy and tracking him down to that compound.  From there, discovering Bin Ladin's courier lives in a compound with no phone or internet?

And he was taken out just like I had hoped he would; shot in the head by SEALS.  Far better than merely dying of complications from diabetes or renal failure.  And he even revealed himself a coward at the end, using one of his own wives as a human shield.  It was all goddamn perfect!

It's really been a great day!

First, remember what I was replying to.  wrongo's post congratulating the intel folks involved in putting all the pieces together to find his location.  I have a special fondness for those much maligned folks, since their job is to describe a picture of a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with maybe 20 pieces.  And based on the newspaper and TV reporting for that day, that was the intell timeline.  Still is as far as I know.

So for you to look at that and see Bush Bush and more Bush... well I dunno.  I mean, sure I'm partisan, but you are some kind of uberpartisan.  You can't even look at a post like that and not see a veiled partisan agenda.  Sure, I could tell you there wasn't one but you would never believe it because you know if the situation was reversed, you would have a partisan agenda.

And as this thread shows, you did.

[ekg]

Here is what's interesting to me, this was the post that you said was just references to Bush:

First, remember what I was replying to.  wrongo's post congratulating the intel folks involved in putting all the pieces together to find his location.  I have a special fondness for those much maligned folks, since their job is to describe a picture of a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle with maybe 20 pieces.  And based on the newspaper and TV reporting for that day, that was the intell timeline.  Still is as far as I know.

So for you to look at that and see Bush Bush and more Bush... well I dunno.  I mean, sure I'm partisan, but you are some kind of uberpartisan.  You can't even look at a post like that and not see a veiled partisan agenda.  Sure, I could tell you there wasn't one but you would never believe it because you know if the situation was reversed, you would have a partisan agenda.

And as this thread shows, you did.

no, as that muche post and the 2 other posts of yours on here shows.. you wanted to make it partsian. You wanted to point to Bush, not Obama.. or, not just Obama..

why do I think that?

easy... I've been doing this with you long enough to know your tricks.. It's the pass/agress thing I've always accused of..had your goal been solely to thank the intel world, then why didn't you mention the intel gathered in 2009? and the other intel gathered in 2010? or the 5 security briefing in 2011 going over the intel that led up to the raid?  you knew about them also...

And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against Al-Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network.

"Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice

you left off the 2008,2010 intel accomplishments... and that information was just from Obama's speech.. I know you watched more than that on Sunday night  and heard even more throughout the day on Monday until you posted that night on muche, so you had to have heard about the phone call being tapped in 2010 that finally found this guy..and the following of him to the compound and the intel acquired after all of that..if not more of the intel successes..

see, if your intention weren't to bring Bush up in a veiled way that you could later deny was your intent, you could easily have said...

"Indeed.  It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting with getting the courier's nickname through our interrogation of prisoners in 2004, to connecting that nickname to a real name in 2007, to finding the guy in 2010 and tracking him down to that compound.  From there, discovering Bin Ladin's courier lives in a compound with no phone or internet?"

or even more simply " It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting in 2004 and ending in 2011"

that would have really encompassed the entirety of the intelligence world wouldn't it?... but you specifically left off any date that could be drawn back to this president, while being very explicit in your date range to only include the timeline of GWB..

talk about maligning the intel world. you left off 4 years.. 2 of which, under this current administration that were the coup de grace that sealed OBL's fate  

now that I re-read this.. it's really quite astonishing the level you went to to eliminate any reference to OBama.. you claim it wasn't intentional, so its even more interesting that your subconscious is this partsian without you even knowing it...

maybe you should have the looked at..


But... I've done with this with you for yeaaarrrrss.. and this is something you are notorious at doing. This 'veil'  you use in your triumphs,critique,POV,opinions,guesses.. etc.. you are expert at the 'saying without saying' so that if you are called on it, you deny any thing of the sort.  You never say anything without having a way out of it. That's been you and will always be you. And that's what you did here..

[Howey]

Boo Hoo! So Bush refused to attend today's ceremony because Obama hurt his itty bitty feelings?

George W. Bush won't be at Ground Zero with President Obama Thursday in part because he feels his team is getting short shrift in the decade-long manhunt for Osama Bin Laden.

"[Bush] viewed this as an Obama victory lap," a highly-placed source told the Daily News Wednesday.

Bush's visit to the rubble after the 9/11 attacks was the emotional high point of his presidency, but associates say the invitation to return with his successor was a non-starter. "He doesn't feel personally snubbed and appreciates the invitation, but Obama's claiming all the credit and a lot of other people deserve some of it," the source added.

"Obama gave no credit whatsoever to the intelligence infrastructure the Bush administration set up that is being hailed from the left and right as setting in motion the operation that got Bin Laden. It rubbed Bush the wrong way."

Umm...yeah. He did, Dubya:

Over the last 10 years, thanks to the tireless and heroic work of our military and our counterterrorism professionals, we’ve made great strides in that effort. We’ve disrupted terrorist attacks and strengthened our homeland defense.

[FooFa]

Bin Laden Dead Already
FoxNews ^ | 12/26/2001 | staff
Posted on Tue May 03 2011 00:46:31 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) by rambo316

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader. "The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said. Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief. About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader." The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident." Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

So when Wikileaks, only a few days ago, announced that a nuclear weapon had been placed “underneath” a major European target by “Al Qaeda” to be detonated upon the capture of Osama bin Laden, a man most knew to be dead for a decade, “insiders” became both fearful and vigilant.

http://camelotforum.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=3&id=41822&Itemid=164#41860
On November 2, 2007, former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto told Al-Jazeera’s David Frost that Omar Sheikh had killed Osama Bin Laden.

Rebuttal

The man talking has worked in at least five presidential administrations and stands by bin Laden being dead since 2001.

[FooFa]

(the guy talking)
http://www.stevepieczenik.com/bio.htm

[lil mike]

no, as that muche post and the 2 other posts of yours on here shows.. you wanted to make it partsian. You wanted to point to Bush, not Obama.. or, not just Obama..

why do I think that?

easy... I've been doing this with you long enough to know your tricks.. It's the pass/agress thing I've always accused of..had your goal been solely to thank the intel world, then why didn't you mention the intel gathered in 2009? and the other intel gathered in 2010? or the 5 security briefing in 2011 going over the intel that led up to the raid?  you knew about them also...


you left off the 2008,2010 intel accomplishments... and that information was just from Obama's speech.. I know you watched more than that on Sunday night  and heard even more throughout the day on Monday until you posted that night on muche, so you had to have heard about the phone call being tapped in 2010 that finally found this guy..and the following of him to the compound and the intel acquired after all of that..if not more of the intel successes..

see, if your intention weren't to bring Bush up in a veiled way that you could later deny was your intent, you could easily have said...

"Indeed.  It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting with getting the courier's nickname through our interrogation of prisoners in 2004, to connecting that nickname to a real name in 2007, to finding the guy in 2010 and tracking him down to that compound.  From there, discovering Bin Ladin's courier lives in a compound with no phone or internet?"

or even more simply " It was an amazing job of putting the pieces together stretching across  years.  Starting in 2004 and ending in 2011"

that would have really encompassed the entirety of the intelligence world wouldn't it?... but you specifically left off any date that could be drawn back to this president, while being very explicit in your date range to only include the timeline of GWB..

talk about maligning the intel world. you left off 4 years.. 2 of which, under this current administration that were the coup de grace that sealed OBL's fate  

now that I re-read this.. it's really quite astonishing the level you went to to eliminate any reference to OBama.. you claim it wasn't intentional, so its even more interesting that your subconscious is this partsian without you even knowing it...

maybe you should have the looked at..


But... I've done with this with you for yeaaarrrrss.. and this is something you are notorious at doing. This 'veil'  you use in your triumphs,critique,POV,opinions,guesses.. etc.. you are expert at the 'saying without saying' so that if you are called on it, you deny any thing of the sort.  You never say anything without having a way out of it. That's been you and will always be you. And that's what you did here..

Wow.  I'm really sorry you let youself get so twisted that you think that.  You know, I don't think your lying.  I think after a full day of hyperpartisan frenzy, not to mention two and a half years of unlearning how to think critically, I've no doubt you really did read my post and saw nothing but BUSH BUSH and MORE BUSH.

heh.

Anyway, you've convinced me that there is literally nothing I could have written that you would not have seen the spectre of Bush in my words.  All I can do is roll my eyes.